[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= gaulois] Should the First Nations people not have their own referendum before the next one to be held by Quebec? Assuming that what we are being told by the Quebec sovereignists is true, i.e. Quebec First Nations people are in favor, this would in fact improve their probabilities of succeeding the next referendum to be submitted to Québécois. <br /> <br />First Nations people do have this "Turtle Island" dream of some level of continental wide sovereignty. The US part will certainly be challenging but can't Canada and Quebec not be more supportive of this? <br /> <br />I have argued before that, in a non zero-sum game, increased First Nations sovereignty would in fact contribute to increasing Canada and perhaps Quebec sovereignty? Food for discussions. I look forward to reading the Quebec sovereignists viewpoint. <br />[/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> <br />I'm not a Quebec soveriegntist, but I think that it would be nearly impossible to give first nations any self-government. I mean, unless they want to live in tents, what is there for them to do? They've been so exposed to European society, that they'd be unhappy whether they run their own land or not. <br /> <br />This does also shoot down the "2 founding nations" argument down, but what is next? There are so many different groups in Canada we'd become the Balkans. What's next? Chinese self-government in Canada? No.

[gaulois]

Clarification: I was not suggesting a First-Nations self government referendum but one that would determine whether the First Nations people residing in Quebec consider themselves bound by a Quebec separation vote. <br /> <br />In regards to Canada recognized nations, I refer to the Canada 1867 act defining who the parties are. If Canada wishes to change that definition, they should make it quite clear before the next Quebec referendum. That would be most useful data for everyone. Could we keep this discussion focussed on First Nations?

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= gaulois] Clarification: I was not suggesting a First-Nations self government referendum but one that would determine whether the First Nations people residing in Quebec consider themselves bound by a Quebec separation vote. <br /> <br />In regards to Canada recognized nations, I refer to the Canada 1867 act defining who the parties are. If Canada wishes to change that definition, they should make it quite clear before the next Quebec referendum. That would be most useful data for everyone. Could we keep this discussion focussed on First Nations? [/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> <br />Okay. So are we discussing the possible partition of Quebec? Because if I recall correctly the Cree (?) in northern Quebec made it clear that they wouldn't want to leave Canada. <br /> <br />Personally I think Quebec would be partitioned, losing not only native lands but the northern two-thirds of their territory which was given to them by the ROC unde rthe agrement they'd stay in the country. It was property of the Hudson's Bay Company I believe. I mean, if one part of Quebec were partitioned, then other parts could be as well. <br /> <br />I think you've touched on the flaw in our political culture--a referendum is not binding, only a constitutional change is, and if a referendum doesn't deal with the fact that if groups like the native Canadians are not given a choice, there could be huge civil unrest. <br /> <br />I won't get into my opinion of what the Americans would try to do. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/eek.gif' alt='Eek!'>

[gaulois]

Perturbed: you are difficult to keep on topic; the question was something like should the First Nations decide by referendum whether they are bound to the results of the overall vote on Quebec sovereingty. This vote would precede the final vote and potentially influence its outcome. Our Quebec sovereignists colleagues assure us they have become onside and you are saying otherwise from earlier history. <br /> <br />Assuming that you are correct, then this would be a case where increasing the First Nations sovereignty could be quite useful in keeping Canada wholesome. This of course is a very sensitive Quebec sovereignty issue and they have never accepted as far as I know such a referendum. If Quebec is allowed to have own referendum on the basis of being a Nation, then the First Nations also being a nation should be able to. This issue is also sensitive in Canada since we would actually give these people some power (aka sovereingty in making their own decisions) once in their life; I have claimed Canada would gain by this too, according to this non zero-sum game scheme. <br /> <br />If you are incorrect, it could speed up separation of Quebec and solve the Quebec problem for good. I will claim once again that this would be good for Canada too (-vs- cold war statu-quo), according to this non zero-sum game scheme. <br /> <br />I know you are not comfortable with the idea of Quebec and First Nations discussed on this Canadian Sovereignty site. <br /> <br />But if this is an activist site prepared to consider alternatives, this should be a worthwhile discussion. You would find out in these discussions that Quebec can be just as an oppressor as the ROC when it becomes acting as a majority toward its minority. Quebec sovereignist claim self-rightness on this sensitive matter. <br /> <br />Otherwise vive may as well bar all the people that are not mainstream Canada "heartland", whatever that is. I hope you saw how ugly this gets south of the border. <br />