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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:03 pm
 


Qu'est-ce que la communauté Franco-Colombienne veut exactement ? <br /> <br /> Voyez vous, je crois qu'il faut faire une distinction entre intégration et assimilation. Je comprend les revendications des Acadiens, des Franco-Ontariens et des Franco-Albertains qui vivent sur leurs territoires respectifs depuis des générations. Dans leur cas c'est de l'assimilation, parce qu'ils y étaient avant que les anglophones les envahissent et tentent de les assimiler.<br /> <br /> Dans votre cas, vous êtes né au Québec et vous avez choisi de vous installer en Colombie-Britannique, il est donc normal de devoir vous intégrer. Vous êtes donc un immigrant comme les autres, quand est-ce que vous allez comprendre que le Canada n'est pas et ne sera jamais un pays véritablement bilingue. <br /> <br /> Et puis après tout, on ne peut pas avoir le beurre et l'argent du beurre.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br />



"Des deux côtés de la rive les regards se rivent la tension est vive, on est sur le qui-vive en attendant que l'inévitable arrive" Loco Locass


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:06 pm
 


When bilingualism became law in 1970 was it to make every Canadian bilingual? The answer is NO!!!!!!<br /> <br /> <br /> If an anglophone from Vancouver moves to Quebec city he's going to have to learn french just like a person from Quebec city would need to know english if he moved to Vancouver. Do you think that because of this that Quebec MUST become a country simply because Vancouver is not bilingual?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:39 pm
 


Ça s'adresse à moi, madame Dino ? <br /> <br /> <br /> Canadian "bilingualism" is a joke. Of course it wasn't to make every "Canadian" bilingual. Francophones ( Quebec or not ) HAVE to speak english while the Anglophones CAN learn french. Officially, by the law, federal employees have to speak both english and french. De facto, outside Quebec, they have to speak english but not french. How many customs guards do not speak french at all ? Probably 40 to 60% of them, and I'm talking about those from the 1000 islands ( where all the quebeckers cross to go to the US ). At least the US customs guards try to speak french and if they don't, they do not look at us like if we were from another planet.<br /> <br /> <br /> Quebec learns english, ROC don't learn french. Fluent english is a must for a job in the Montreal area. Like I said before, my english (especially written and spoken) is weak, but an anglophone who speaks french like I speak english is regarded as fully bilingual.<br /> <br /> <br /> N.B: You didn't understand a word of what I wrote in french up there. You do not speak french at all, that's why you post in english in "La Francophonie" forum.



"Des deux côtés de la rive les regards se rivent la tension est vive, on est sur le qui-vive en attendant que l'inévitable arrive" Loco Locass


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:59 pm
 


[QUOTE BY= fleur-de-lys] Ça s'adresse à moi, madame Dino ? <br /> <br /> <br /> Canadian "bilingualism" is a joke. Of course it wasn't to make every "Canadian" bilingual. Francophones ( Quebec or not ) HAVE to speak english while the Anglophones CAN learn french. Officially, by the law, federal employees have to speak both english and french. De facto, outside Quebec, they have to speak english but not french. How many customs guards do not speak french at all ? Probably 40 to 60% of them, and I'm talking about those from the 1000 islands ( where all the quebeckers cross to go to the US ). At least the US customs guards try to speak french and if they don't, they do not look at us like if we were from another planet.<br /> <br /> <br /> Quebec learns english, ROC don't learn french. Fluent english is a must for a job in the Montreal area. Like I said before, my english (especially written and spoken) is weak, but an anglophone who speaks french like I speak english is regarded as fully bilingual.<br /> <br /> <br /> N.B: You didn't understand a word of what I wrote in french up there. You do not speak french at all, that's why you post in english in "La Francophonie" forum. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> That's wrong. You live in North America. You don't have to learn how to speak english if you don't want. What Quebecers HAVE to speak english? Last time I checked 60% on Quebecers were bilingual and the rest weren't.<br /> <br /> Americans trying to speak french? I doubt it. You think Americans are more tolerant then english Canadians when it comes to meeting a francophone? Please let me see Quebecers go to Texas, Florida or California and be treated nicer then coming to Ontario, Nova Scotia and Manitoba.<br /> <br />


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:15 pm
 


[QUOTE by=dino]<br /> That's wrong. You live in North America. You don't have to learn how to speak english if you don't want. What Quebecers HAVE to speak english? Last time I checked 60% on Quebecers were bilingual and the rest weren't.<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Everybody HAVE to speak english here, we've all learned it at school. Now they start to learn it at first grade (kids of 7 years old). 60% of Quebecers bilingual, that's true, I'm not bilingual, but every Quebecer know at least some basic stuff.<br /> <br /> In the ROC, french courses are facultative.<br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE by=Dino]<br /> Americans trying to speak french? I doubt it. You think Americans are more tolerant then english Canadians when it comes to meeting a francophone? Please let me see Quebecers go to Texas, Florida or California and be treated nicer then coming to Ontario, Nova Scotia and Manitoba.<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> I was talking about the costums guards ! <br /> <br /> I don't know how we will be treated since War in Iraq but I'm sure it will still be better in California than in Ontario. <br /> <br /> My parents went to Florida every winter for 2 weeks from 1985 to 2000, they never had any problem. <br /> <br /> They went 2 times to Ontario for 1 week, I don't remember exactly when but it was both after 1995.<br /> <br /> -Niagara falls, a guy said "stupid frogs" to them while they were just speaking and walking down the street. <br /> <br /> -Toronto, in a restaurent, the waitress came with a smile, then one of my parent asked: do you speak french ? She stopped smiling and she became very very rude with them, eventhough my parents were speaking english.<br /> <br /> <br /> _______________________________________<br /> <br /> <br /> Do you know why Hull is the only city in Quebec where the bars ends at 2 o'clock ? The last call was at 3 o'clock like everywhere else in Quebec before, but at 2 o'clock, almost every day, a lot of drunkards from Ottawa went to Hull, just to insult and fight the french. <br /> <br /> <br /> <br />



"Des deux côtés de la rive les regards se rivent la tension est vive, on est sur le qui-vive en attendant que l'inévitable arrive" Loco Locass


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 4:50 pm
 


There are many french schools in every city in the ROC. Many people were I live put there kids in french immersion which is they start french when they are 5 years old and learn french in every single subject.<br /> <br /> Do you ever think that people in Ontario might be against Quebecers not because they are french but because your are seen simply as separatists? People in Florida would know your parents as simple foreign visitors. People from Florida don't live in a country were there is a separatist movement trying to break apart there country.<br /> <br /> Imagine what people in english Canada would think of Quebec if there wasn't a movement to break apart the country? <br /> <br /> I doubt people would come over the Quebec border simply to fight the french. More people would be much more tolerant with the french language since they live in Ottawa. I've never heard the media talking about anglos beating up francophones in Hull so I don't believe you!


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:03 pm
 


Language debates are misguided wastes of precious time. Really, they are. We really must learn how to combine efforts and direct the aforementioned towards more productive ends. 'Tis really a shame…nonetheless, Toronto and it's surrounding areas thank you from the bottom of their hearts and from the bottom of their deep pockets.<br /> <br /> Simply stated, English is now the de facto business language not because of its beauty, not because the British 'came' and occupied la Nouvelle France (Who gave it to the 'Nouveau Français'? Did 'they', 'les Nouveau Français', peacefully take it from the previous occupiers?), but because it is much easier to learn than any of the romance languages. Quite frankly, I prefer the romance languages and their dialects. However, when presented with a potential business venture in English or French (Or the other romance language I fluently speak, read, and write), I switch language codes 'tout de suite'.<br /> <br /> Think about what Pierre Pelladeau once said…


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:03 pm
 


[QUOTE de fleur-de-lys]</b> … my english (especially written and spoken) is weak, but an anglophone who speaks french like I speak english is regarded as fully bilingual.<b>[/QUOTE]<br /> Votre anglais est très bien. Si seulement je parlais français aussi bien que vous écrivez anglais …<br /> <br /> [QUOTE de dino]</b> Americans trying to speak french? I doubt it.<b>[/QUOTE]<br /> Oui, c’est un mythe tenace. Nous parlons seulement anglais — oups, <i>’méricain</i>.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE de dino]</b> People from Florida don’t live in a country where there is a separatist movement trying to break apart their country.<b>[/QUOTE]<br /> Nous avons beaucoup de mouvements séparatistes. Rien que le Vermont a au moins deux: <a href="http://www.vermontcanada.org/">VermontCanada.org</a> et <a href="http://www.vermontrepublic.org/">Second Vermont Republic</a>.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE de dino]</b> I’ve never heard the media talking about anglos beating up francophones in Hull so I don’t believe you!<b>[/QUOTE]<br /> Les bagarres sont rarement dans les médias nationaux.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE de Marcus]</b> English is now the de facto business language … because it is much easier to learn than any of the romance languages.<b>[/QUOTE]<br /> Comme la prononciation de “ough”, par ex. <i>bough</i>, <i>cough</i>, <i>dough</i>, <i>enough</i>, <i>fought</i>, <i>hiccough</i>, <i>lough</i>, <i>thorough</i>, …



Shatter your ideals upon the rock of Truth.

— The Divine Symphony, by Inayat Khan


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:13 am
 


[QUOTE BY= fleur-de-lys] Qu'est-ce que la communauté Franco-Colombienne veut exactement ? <br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> Je ne me prétend pas un porte-parole pour la communauté franco-colombienne. Que ca soit le BC, l'Alberta, la Sasketchewan ou le Manitoba (ou nous avons apparamment plus une histoire), les francos s'intègrent et s'assimilent à des rythmes accélérés, perdent leur identité, intérêt au français. Donc les francos font exactement ce que tu dis, fleur-de-lys, que le Canada soit "bilingue" ou non. <br /> <br /> Le Canard croit que ca pourrait se passer beaucoup mieux, moyennant des réformes de nos médias, de nos instances démocratiques et un démantellement de la bulle artificielle qui prétend nous soutenir. Au contraire, cette bulle nous écrase et accélère notre taux d'assimilation. Le Canard offre une alternative à considérer pour ceux qui aimeraient entretenir une identité franco.



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:39 am
 


[QUOTE BY= Brother Jonathan] <br /> Comme la prononciation de “ough”, par ex. <i>bough</i>, <i>cough</i>, <i>dough</i>, <i>enough</i>, <i>fought</i>, <i>hiccough</i>, <i>lough</i>, <i>thorough</i>, …[/QUOTE]<br /> Quite frankly, you should have also included the word '<b>Thought</b>'...<br /> <br /> And now...care to conjugate 'le verbe avoir à <i>tous</i> les temps'?<br /> <br /> But seriously, I never said English was an easy language to learn. I simply stated that it was an <b>easier</b> language to learn as opposed to any of the romance languages.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Brother Jonathan] <br /> Les bagarres sont rarement dans les médias nationaux.[/QUOTE]<br /> I agree. Nonetheless, you fail to mention that 'both' sides have partaken in and initiated unmentionable atrocities. To say or imply otherwise is insanely naive.<br /> <br /> As I said, we really must put all this petty ethnocentric behavior behind us and endeavor to focus on the developing needs of the people, which has been ignored for far too long.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:31 pm
 


[QUOTE]<br /> Imagine what people in english Canada would think of Quebec if there wasn't a movement to break apart the country? <br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Imagine what racist white people from South Africa would think of black South Africans if there wasn't an anti-Apartheid movement ?<br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE by=Dino]I doubt people would come over the Quebec border simply to fight the french. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Well, I saw it few times at bars and nightclubs and I'm not from Hull. I don't know if it's genetic but a lot of anglo saxons can't support alcohol, they get very violent, that's why laws about alcohol are so strict in the UK, USA, Canada... <br /> <br /> [QUOTE by=Marcus]<br /> Did 'they', 'les Nouveau Français', peacefully take it from the previous occupiers?)<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Nouvelle-France was a very vast territory with not a lot of population. Yeah they peacefully took it, Amerindians never revolted against the French before the Battle of the Plains of Abraham (French and Hurons VS English and Iroquois). French coureurs des bois were trading beaver furs with the Hurons, that wasn't very fair (beaver fur hats were very expensive) but the amerindians were very glad to have guns, mirrors... Many coureurs des bois were métisse so they were speaking both French and Wyandot.<br /> <br /> Somehow, the Jesuits converted many Hurons to christianism and they tried to convert the Iroquois, in vain, the Iroquois (Huron's ennemies) tortured and killed a couple of Jesuits. <br /> <br /> [QUOTE by=Brother Jonathan]<br /> Votre anglais est très bien. Si seulement je parlais français aussi bien que vous écrivez anglais …<br /> [/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> Merci mais votre français écrit semble meilleur que mon anglais écrit, j'en suis presque convaincu. <br /> <br /> Pour bien parler français, il ne faut pas oublier de faire la liaison entre les mots, ce qui est parfois difficile. <br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE by=Gaulois]Votre dernier post[/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> Cette fois-ci je suis d'accord avec tout ce que vous avez dit, je suis heureux d'apprendre qu'il y a des FHQ qui s'en rendent compte.<br /> <br /> Je suis allé au NB avec mon ex et il y a une Acadienne qui s'est approchée de ma blonde pour lui dire: "Jamme ( j'aime) ben ta skirt da way qu'a hang." <br /> <br /> Comme quoi il faut faire attention, suffit d'utiliser moins d'anglicismes, autant que possible.<br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE by=Marcus]<br /> And now...care to conjugate 'le verbe avoir à tous les temps'?<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> "Avoir"(to have) isn't so difficult, the only exception is j'ai (instead of j'avoir), "être"(to be) is harder. It's useless to learn all the verbs "à tous les temps". Only a few snobs use Passé Simple and Passé antérieur nowadays so forget it, you don't have to learn Subjonctif neither. <br /> <br /> Just learn present (indicatif):<br /> <br /> J'ai<br /> Tu as<br /> Il a<br /> Nous avons ( we almost never use "nous" in Quebec dialect, On instead )<br /> Vous Avez<br /> Ils ont <br /> On a<br /> <br /> For past you had "eu" ( j'ai eu, tu as eu, il a eu... ) and for future it's "aur" before ( j'aurai, tu auras, il aura..)



"Des deux côtés de la rive les regards se rivent la tension est vive, on est sur le qui-vive en attendant que l'inévitable arrive" Loco Locass


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 3:04 pm
 


[QUOTE BY= fleur-de-lys] <br /> Imagine what people in english Canada would think of Quebec if there wasn't a movement to break apart the country? <br /> <br /> <br /> Imagine what racist white people from South Africa would think of black South Africans if there wasn't an anti-Apartheid movement ?[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> <br /> To compare anglophones in Canada with racist white south africans is stupid. When people in english Canada have something to say about separatists in Quebec people like yourself say it's "Quebec bashing" or "anti french." And that frustrates people alot in english Canada that there made to be anti Quebec when they are simply against the separatists.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 3:29 pm
 


Thanks for participating to the thread but could we try to stick to thread topic?



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 3:41 pm
 


[QUOTE BY= fleur-de-lys] ... je suis heureux d'apprendre qu'il y a des FHQ qui s'en rendent compte.<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> Ce qui est bien angoissant, c'est qu'il y en ait si peu prêt à faire de quoi à ce sujet. L'apathie est immense après une centaine d'années de tutelle. Le Manifeste essaie de fournir une lueur d'espoir. <br /> <br /> Les Québécois (&Français et autres apports franco) qui viennent dans le RdC comprennent souvent mal notre situation. La prochaine génération devrait compter sur de meilleures références. Le RdC ne comprend guère mieux notre situation et pourra aussi bénéficier d'un éclairement différent; faudrait que je le traduise éventuellement.



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 6:41 pm
 


[QUOTE BY= fleur-de-lys]<br /> Yeah they peacefully took it[/QUOTE]<br /> Forgive me gaulois for further dragging this thread the off topic route. However, dress it as you may, it nonetheless will always be an <b>alliance-come-invasion</b>.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= fleur-de-lys]<br /> but the amerindians were very glad to have guns, mirrors[/QUOTE]<br /> Let's not forget the epidemics introduced (freely offered) by the European newcomers, which devastated the aboriginal population (BTW, are you a smoker?). Additionally, do you believe natives enjoyed having Jesuits force feed them the 'truth', simply because they were savages and needed to be 'saved'? Do you fathom the damaging irreparable effect this kind of behavior had upon the native's culture, language, and religious beliefs?<br />


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