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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:32 am
 


[QUOTE BY= dino]<br /> I think that I mean to say Wilfrid Laurier. My point to mentioning the first french Canadian Prime minister was that he became Canada's leader in 1896 to 1911 so why not change things for Quebec he was an outspoken person of confederation he could of done things for Quebec but he didn't.<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> Dino: It has been repeated a few times lately that Laurier gave in to the pressure of the orangeists wanting to terminate French parents operated schools in the ROC. The Quebec nationalist movement started at that time with Honoré Mercier and clergyman le Chanoine Lionel Groulx. Laurier is an other example of a super-lackey appointment by the Brits to "put Quebec in its place". He eventually got the title of a Sir. Laurier should never have been chosen for our $5 bill. It is a shame. Louis-Hyppolite Lafontaine would have been a much better example. Why was he not? Because he symbolyzed what this country was supposed to be about on equality of its fondings Nations. Some people must have thought that it was not such a great idea then. Must be this history that keeps repeating itself or the "men will never change (unless they have to)". How many more Laurier, Trudeau, and Chrétien must we have before we ever learn?



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 6:26 pm
 


[QUOTE]How many more Laurier, Trudeau, and Chrétien must we have before we ever learn?[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> I am shy <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/redface.gif' alt='Oops!'> to see Trudeau, Chrétien presented themselves as Quebeckers. Nobody knows the perfect theater scene that is still playing in front of us. There are rules when you get the power than the common people ignore. Is there one from Machiavel (in my own words)(Machaveli in english?): When there is a minority and a majority in a country, you have to accomode as a politician the majority of people to stay in power. But if the two groups have a distinction as big as the language, which is the fondation of mental constructions (words, arguments, point of view, etc.), this is a complicated situation because there is always a hole (fossé?) between the two. <br /> <br /> The solution? Place a puppet from a minority (Québécois) at the head of the country. The puppet (Chrétien, Laurier, St-Laurent, Trudeau, Mulroney... choose the one you prefer!) serve the desires of the majority but his decisions won't hit the Québec's population the same way as the Prime Minister names's Mr. Black from Saskatoon! It is an accomodation.<br /> <br /> Québécois weren't suppose to be there in 2000. The initial plan of assimilation failed, it is more difficult to cut the root of the french culture and pround than the native's one. Bad thing. Dino, you have to understand that the establishment of the country (Canada), political and financial elites, came from England, is now from English-Canada and will still be in the future and stand for the same goal. Canada is their invention, part of a powerful union of ex GB's colonies and the most important commercial partner of the new empire, USA. This is Canada in geo-politic. History is not really important in facts, it is written by the winners anyway.<br /> <br /> Ah, Canada was built from two differents colonisation systems from the great ennemies of middle-age and modern times: GB and France. What does your history book tell after that?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:03 pm
 


[QUOTE]Nope I was born and raised in Saskatoon,Saskatchewan I'm of Zimbabwean decent I'm not of english origin![/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> I'm not racist nor xenophobe and I'm interested to know why you don't think you are english canadian. Maybe you are not of anglo-saxon origin, but you always lived with them, it doesn't make you english canadian ?<br /> <br /> Here in Montreal there is many people of different origins. In particular the Haitians, which is probably the most common origin of the immigrants. I believe that in general they are integrated very easily, they already learned French and they learn the quebecois dialect ( and also the "joual", Quebec's slang ) very quickly. So, I think that make them Quebecois.



"Des deux côtés de la rive les regards se rivent la tension est vive, on est sur le qui-vive en attendant que l'inévitable arrive" Loco Locass


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:24 am
 


I don't consider my self english because I'm not and neither are many Canadians. If you say I'm an english speaker well I am! And many of my friend who were born and raised here of different backgrounds from all over the world don't look at themselves as anglo saxons. Especially the ones who are of native decent.<br /> <br /> It's not often I hear people from Haiti calling themselves Quebecers. We had some as exchange students in Saskatoon and they don't regard themselves as Quebecois and they were born in Quebec.<br /> <br /> I'm quite sure _747 would agree since he thinks only people of french origin in Quebec should be able to vote in the next referendum. When he says things like that it's not hard to figure out why the "yes side" can't get a solid majority or better yet simply win.<br /> <br /> don't worry fleur-de-lys I don't think your a racist but I find it odd why people who speak english simply in english Canada should remember the faults that anglo saxons did to the french because we don't remember and choose not to because it's the 21st century and we believe it's time to move on.<br /> <br /> I lived in Saskatchewan all my life and my Canadian history taught me about it all.There are many aboriginals in Saskatchewan 15% of the population and when they speark about the faults of the white man they say that they forgive but not to forget. You guys in Quebec should learn from them it's time to move on instead of fearing anglo saxons are planning to destroy your culture and language. And if your wondering the amount of natives who are aginst separation in Quebec in english Canada is about 99%!(Same within quebec!) I don't blame them because there still waiting for people like Landry to explain to the first nations across Canada what right does the PQ have to break apart Canada.<br /> <br /> Fleur-de-lys perphaps you can explain to me since I never hear it coming from people like Duceppe and Landry.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:40 am
 


[QUOTE BY= fleur-de-lys] [QUOTE BY=dino]Wasn't Louis St. Laurent the first francophone prime minister? Why didn't he bring in official bilingualism when he was prime minister since he was from Quebec and would know Quebecers best. Isn't he the one who destroyed french in english Canada?[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> No, it was Wilfrid Laurier. Why didn't he bring in official bilingualism ? Simply because he was just a puppet. The liberal party always do that, they elect a french canadian who thinks like an english canadian, just to hide the fact that the "french canadians" are a conquered nation.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Bien dit Fleur-de-lys. <br /> <br /> <i>« La Confédération sera la tombe de la race française et la ruine du Bas-Canada. »</i><br /> Wilfrid Laurier (1841-1919)<br /> <br /> <i>«Une nation fatiguée de longs débats consent volontiers qu'on la dupe, pourvu qu'on la repose, et l'histoire nous apprend qu'il suffit alors pour la contenter de ramasser dans tout le pays un certain nombre d'hommes obscurs ou dépendants, et de leur faire jouer devant elle le rôle d'une assemblée politique, moyennant salaire. »</i><br /> Alexis de Tocqueville (1805-1859)<br /> <br />



« Il y a une belle, une terrible rationalité dans la décision d´être libre. » - Gérard Bergeron


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:27 pm
 


[QUOTE by=dino]

I'm quite sure _747 would agree since he thinks only people of french origin in Quebec should be able to vote in the next referendum. When he says things like that it's not hard to figure out why the "yes side" can't get a solid majority or better yet simply win.
[/QUOTE]

I don't agree with 747 on that, of course the quebecois francophones "pure laine" will vote in majority for yes ( 70% or more ). But it's not democratic, every citizen of Quebec, including anglophones ( around 99% will vote for no, they want to keep us as slaves ) and allophones ( I think it will be around 50% ) should have the right to vote. We have to show that the separatist movement is not racist ( as opposed to what Immigration Canada said to them ) to the new quebecois who don't understand our situation. We also have to convince more native francophones that, even if they promise it, the federal gov. won't give us more rights if we don't separate.

[QUOTE by=dino]
I don't blame them because there still waiting for people like Landry to explain to the first nations across Canada what right does the PQ have to break apart Canada.

Fleur-de-lys perphaps you can explain to me since I never hear it coming from people like Duceppe and Landry.
[/QUOTE]

What kind of question is that ? Why shouldn't we have the right to take back a small part of our country the british invaded, Nouvelle-France ? It's not my problem if it will "break apart" your empire, you deserved it. Ceux qui sèment la misère récolterons la colère.

By the way, if the first nations want a or some country(ies), they have just to do a referendum like us.


[QUOTE by=dino]
Bien dit Fleur-de-lys.

« La Confédération sera la tombe de la race française et la ruine du Bas-Canada. »
Wilfrid Laurier (1841-1919)
[/QUOTE]

Tu es sarcastisque ? Je ne te suit plus là, tu admires Laurier ou pas ? Je suis peut-être un peu dur de comprenure mais je ne vois pas en quoi cette citation l'incrimine.



"Des deux côtés de la rive les regards se rivent la tension est vive, on est sur le qui-vive en attendant que l'inévitable arrive" Loco Locass


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:59 pm
 


[QUOTE BY= fleur-de-lys]I don't agree with 747 on that, of course the quebecois francophones "pure laine" will vote in majority for yes ( 70% or more ). <br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> It's more like 60%.It was 50% in 1980. After the 1995 referendum they did a poll showing 69% of people in Quebec would prefer to have a constitutional deal to stay in Canada. I personally don't see why federal politicians don't bring back meech lake and put it to a vote. If someone like Lucien Bouchard liked it then that's a positive sign. <br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= fleur-de-lys] But it's not democratic, every citizen of Quebec, including anglophones ( around 99% will vote for no, they want to keep us as slaves ) and allophones ( I think it will be around 50% ) should have the right to vote.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Aren't anglophones a minority in Quebec.Do you ever tink they would want the country to stay together so that there is both french and english. If Quebec were to become a country then it would simply be french no english. Instead of breaking apart the country you should focus on changing the consittution. What are allophones? Is it people who are neither french nore english?<br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= fleur-de-lys]What kind of question is that ? Why shouldn't we have the right to take back a small part of our country the british invaded, Nouvelle-France ? It's not my problem if it will "break apart" your empire, you deserved it.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> How can you even say nouvelle-france would have become a country. If Quebec had been a country before the british invasion then I would agree with you. But Quebec was a piece land just like the rest of Canada. Quebecers are not a conquered people there is a difference between being defeated and being conquered. I'll give you an example, in the war of 1812 when the Americans were fighting above them to take all this land (that we now call Canada) If they had won would we be saying that we are a colonized people? Nope! Because we were nothing until 1867 then people in this land became Canadians.<br /> My point is you and many others in Quebec would like to change history but you can't. Could the natives kick us off there land because it was taken from them and they didn't like how history turned out? No! That's why you notice in this country 99% of Natives are against separation because it's like other people in history have been through the same thing but have to deal with it.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= fleur-de-lysBy the way, if the first nations want a or some country(ies), they have just to do a referendum like us.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> They wouldn't need one there would be overwhelming support. Do you even realise how much land is in the hands of the natives in Quebec?!<br /> <br /> <br /> <br />


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:13 am
 


Michou, <br /> <br /> votre email address ne marche pas; changez il en votre profile svp. Je vous enverrais l'email, mais...


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:17 am
 


[QUOTE BY= jvanherk] Michou, <br /> <br /> votre email address ne marche pas; changez il en votre profile svp. Je vous enverrais l'email, mais...[/QUOTE]Corrected, tested and done. <br /> So if anyone ever sent me e-mails, it looks like they vanished into cyberspace or someone else got them. Sorry about that.



« Il y a une belle, une terrible rationalité dans la décision d´être libre. » - Gérard Bergeron


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:37 am
 


[QUOTE BY= fleur-de-lys] [QUOTE by=michou]<br /> Bien dit Fleur-de-lys.<br /> <br /> « La Confédération sera la tombe de la race française et la ruine du Bas-Canada. »<br /> Wilfrid Laurier (1841-1919)<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Tu es sarcastisque ? Je ne te suit plus là, tu admires Laurier ou pas ? Je suis peut-être un peu dur de comprenure mais je ne vois pas en quoi cette citation l'incrimine.[/QUOTE]<br /> Je n'essayais pas d'être sarcastique, malgré que ça m'arrive ... <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/smile.gif' alt='Smile'> <br /> Je voulais simplement illustrer le fait que la confédération canadienne n'a jamais été créée dans le but d'inclure sa population francophone mais bien pour l'assimiler à la majorité Britannique, colonialiste et anglophone du pays. <br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= fleur-de-lys]<br /> I don't agree with 747 on that, of course the quebecois francophones "pure laine" will vote in majority for yes ( 70% or more ). But it's not democratic, every citizen of Quebec, including anglophones ( around 99% will vote for no, they want to keep us as slaves ) and allophones ( I think it will be around 50% ) should have the right to vote.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Ton commentaire me fait penser à une autre citation, de Pierre Bourgault cette fois-çi. <br /> <br /> <i>« Pour moi, 60 à 65 pour cent représente un vote démocratique, 80 pour cent un vote xénophobe et 97 pour cent... c'est un vote carrément raciste. »</i><br /> - Pierre Bourgault 1995<br /> (sur le vote anglophone qui aurait été de 97 pourcent pour le Non selon un sondage)<br /> <br /> C'est à se demander, qui dans l'environnement politique Canadien et Québécois devrait être sommé du qualificatif de 'raciste' ?



« Il y a une belle, une terrible rationalité dans la décision d´être libre. » - Gérard Bergeron


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:46 pm
 


C'est une belle citation, c'est un grand combattant qui nous a quitté <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/confused.gif' alt='Confused'> J'ai vu ces discours lorsqu'il était dans le RIN ( Rassemblement pour l'Indépendance Nationale ) il parlait de l'unilinguisme français au Québec. Il avait une idéologie anarchique révolutionnaire. Même si il était selon moi un peu trop extrêmiste, il faut avouer que ces discours étaient très énergiques. C'est aussi lui qui a composé la chanson "Entre deux joint" interprété par Robert Charlesbois. Ce chanteur là était très souverainiste et il a finit par vendre sa brasserie aux ontariens yink pour la piastre. Ça me fait un peu... je les aiment les bières d'Unibroue, y sont fortes. et je n'en connais pas d'autres qui sont brassés par des québécois.<img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/biggrin.gif' alt='Big Grin'> ahhh les québécois ont est fort sur l'alcool et le suicide, presque autemps que dans les communautés amérindiennes. Inquiètez vous pas, quoi que certains pourrait s'en réjouir, je n'ai pas l'intention de me suicider. J'ai une blonde brésilienne que j'adore, j'ai un emploi quand même assez satisfaisant. Enfin bref, je m'éloigne en faisant des liens comme ça, je pense que je vais arrêter ça.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]I personally don't see why federal politicians don't bring back meech lake and put it to a vote. If someone like Lucien Bouchard liked it then that's a positive sign.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> It's bizarre because we were talking about sarcasm in french. Can you understand this quote ? <br /> «La solution est maintenant plus que jamais de s'assumer devant un Canada qui ne bougera plus.» (Lucien Bouchard)<br /> <br /> [QUOTE by=dino]<br /> Aren't anglophones a minority in Quebec.Do you ever tink they would want the country to stay together so that there is both french and english. If Quebec were to become a country then it would simply be french no english. Instead of breaking apart the country you should focus on changing the consittution.<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Some of them will leave, but I'm almost sure most of them will continue to only speak to us in english and stay in their rich community.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]What are allophones? Is it people who are neither french nore english?<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> Sorry, I didn't know it was not very used or understood outside Quebec.<br /> <br /> "In Quebec, an allophone is someone whose first language or language of use is neither English nor French. The term is also sometimes used in other parts of Canada. It is formed from the Greek roots allos, meaning other, and phone, meaning sound or voice." Wikipedia, free encyclopedia.<br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]My point is you and many others in Quebec would like to change history but you can't[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Explain me why we can't ? if we have a majority in the referendum you won't give us freedom ?<br />



"Des deux côtés de la rive les regards se rivent la tension est vive, on est sur le qui-vive en attendant que l'inévitable arrive" Loco Locass


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:05 pm
 


Given Canadian circumstances and past mistakes and the number of Canadians who seem to feel some integration with the US is desirable, I can appreciate the viewpoint of a Quebec Francophone who believes that separation from Canada is the only means to preserve their culture and heritage.<br /> <br /> But, when you get into this 'give us our freedom' nonsense, give me a break. <br /> <br /> Bottom line is, most Canadians and Quebecois see retaining the nation as being better than the alternatives. The last referendum was the last chance separatists had, and even with a trick question they didn't win. Most Quebecois 'won't get fooled again'. Blame it on immigrants, the feds, old people or whatever you will. Quebec sovereignty lost because most people who weren't taken in by the weasely nature of the question rejected it.<br /> <br /> From a direct democracy perspective, questions such as 'should we separate' would not be determined on a 50+1 majority. Questions of this nature would require an agreed upon 'majority', which could be 70 or 80% No sane person would atempt to form a nation based on a 51% majority, given that the disagreement of the other 49% could reasonably be expected to cause certain 'problems' within the new nation.<br /> <br /> I don't see a lot of difference between some Quebec separatists and Canadians that would prefer us to be US citizens. From my perspective, if either has a problem with how Canada is today, they have the right to piss off and find a nation that better fits their goals and needs. There is no 'nation of Quebec' and there is no 'US state named Canada'.<br /> <br />



"When we are in the middle of the paradigm, it is hard to imagine any other paradigm" (Adam Smith).


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:43 am
 


[QUOTE BY= fleur-de-lys] <br /> It's bizarre because we were talking about sarcasm in french. Can you understand this quote ? <br /> «La solution est maintenant plus que jamais de s'assumer devant un Canada qui ne bougera plus.» (Lucien Bouchard)<br /> [/QUOTE]My french is not that good but I'm pretty good at understanding it when I see it on tv. Does your quote mean The solution is now and that Canada will move no more.>?<br /> <br /> Tell me what it means because I know I'm wrong!I have a question for you, Lucien bouchard supported the meech lake back in 1990 did Gilles Duceppe?<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= fleur-de-lys] Some of them will leave, but I'm almost sure most of them will continue to only speak to us in english and stay in their rich community.[/QUOTE] First are the rich communities westmount? I'm going to assume you live in montreal what part of montreal do you live in and if you speak to people in french and you know they probably speak both languages and they reply to you in english then keep speaking french until they understand that Quebec's first language is french.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= fleur-de-lys]Explain me why we can't ? if we have a majority in the referendum you won't give us freedom ?<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> Freedom!! ARE YOU SERIOUS?!!!?! Please tell me your joking because you are seriously making me laugh! Is the francaphone population in Quebec (the MAJORITY of you) are you oppressed? Are there certain rights we have in english Canada that you don't have? <br /> <br /> I remember seeing this thing showing the french president telling Quebecers "Vive le Quebec. Vive le Quebec liber!!!" I think to myself how are Quebecers not free?!<br /> <br /> I have another question for you. Do you consider yourself an extremist as in,do you not consider yourself Canadian?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:47 pm
 


[QUOTE by=dino]My french is not that good but I'm pretty good at understanding it when I see it on tv. Does your quote mean The solution is now and that Canada will move no more.>?<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> "The solution is now more than ever to assume ourselves in front of Canada which will not move anymore."<br /> <br /> Gilles Duceppe and Lucien Bouchard never supported the new constitution or lake meech accord, remember that they are "evil separatists" who are not going to betray René Levesque.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE by=dino]<br /> First are the rich communities westmount? I'm going to assume you live in montreal what part of montreal do you live in and if you speak to people in french and you know they probably speak both languages and they reply to you in english then keep speaking french until they understand that Quebec's first language is french.<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> I'm in North Montreal actually. I don't have anglophone friends, they don't talk with french speakers very much. I did that many times, speaking to them in french, but they almost always answer in english or they ask "can you speak english ?". I was working in a service station in the west suburb of Montreal. Once, an english speaker asked me for indications, I had to explain it in english and at the end he said in a perfect french: "Je te remercie beaucoup, salut !".<br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE by=dino]<br /> I remember seeing this thing showing the french president telling Quebecers "Vive le Quebec. Vive le Quebec libre!!!" I think to myself how are Quebecers not free?!<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> Charles De Gaulle was the leader of the french resistance during ww2, you think he don't know what he's <br /> talking about ?<br /> <br /> don't try to circumvent my questions and I'm going to answer you why I think quebecers are not free.<br /> <br /> If the yes side have a majority ( 50%+1 or more ) at the next referendum and Canada don't want to give us sovereignty, what will be your reaction ?<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE by=dino]<br /> I have another question for you. Do you consider yourself an extremist as in,do you not consider yourself Canadian?<br /> [QUOTE]<br /> <br /> I'm not an extremist nor a canadian.



"Des deux côtés de la rive les regards se rivent la tension est vive, on est sur le qui-vive en attendant que l'inévitable arrive" Loco Locass


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:11 pm
 


I'm censored or what ? why the last post is empty ?



"Des deux côtés de la rive les regards se rivent la tension est vive, on est sur le qui-vive en attendant que l'inévitable arrive" Loco Locass


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