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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:49 pm
 


Would you play an RPG based on mass politics and social debate? It would be intended to be funny/satirical, which is basically the only way I can get through things with as little of my own bias being obvious as possible. Also, I want to avoid pretending my spectrum chart is anything but "badpolitics"; incorrect political theory that should be considered to be roughly as accurate as the horseshoe theory.

I mentioned several times over the past few years how much I want to learn and work on video games, specifically RPGs. I've thrown ideas around here about it, mainly the first idea was to have it be a purely CKA thing, with characters all based on actual users here. While hashing out ideas I ended up making a list of traits of political arguing, and made something I call "the R.E.A.S.O.N. system" which ultimately is a lot like Fallout's S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system or any sort of RPG core attribute system. But eventually, like every idea and interest I seem to have, I get distracted and give up on the idea. I gets disinterested or find other things to take up my time.

A few weeks ago I was playing a Rogue-like 8-bit RPG game and decided that'd be a better idea than what I had planned. I scrapped the idea of having a game focused on just this forum. I wanted a game where it'd either be purely single-player, or with a party, and where if you died, you're dead and must restart, but replay value is added with achievements and unlocked characters/skills (sided moderated and extremists).

I created a new political spectrum based off the classical two-axis social-vs-economy compass. There are 9 core "ideologies", which can be summed up as Anarchism, Libertarianism, Communism, Fascism (the four extremes), Reformism, Reactionism (not a word), Socialism, Capitalism (the four sided moderates), and "True" Moderate. Within each ideology is a further 9 "tendencies", for 81 total possible characters, each intended to have their own story. The spectrum looks and is intended to act somewhat like the classic D&D "alignment" system. I've already given lightly-biased names to each ideology and tendency, as well as have created symbols and designs for most of them.

As I've written this out and talked to a few D&D-playing friends (a game I've sadly never got to experience), I've been pressured into making this game into a table-top RPG before I make the push into a video game version, and I think I agree. Sadly I'm basically clueless to D&D's proper mechanics, but I have already many clear influences from games which have been influenced by D&D.

I'm currently trying to decide exactly how "debates" (battles) will work. I've collected a massive list of fallacies, another list of ideographs, as well as a bunch of notes on theories and models of rhetoric and argument. I can already see how this would be SO MUCH EASIER to design as a multi-player table-top game as opposed to a single-player video-game. Currently my ideas are on having arguments get "created" by the player by piecing together ideographs and the inflection on those terms from the ideologies, but I'll have to spend more time formulating the specifics of that idea before I can say much more about it.

I want a game where it takes you at least 10 to 15 minutes to create your character sheet. I want a game that's just a loose excuse to convince people to get into political arguments.

I have a name planned for this game but I'm unsure if it's generic enough to pass, as I see some other dinky phone game was made and abandoned after the American 2008 election. The game is intended to be funny.

Here's some details.

"The R.E.A.S.O.N. System" and what they're vaguely similar too:
Rage (Strength)
Empathy (Perception)
Ability (Agility)
Sincerity (Charisma)
Observance (Intelligence)
Nerve (Endurance)

I planned for this system to originally have about 4 or so sub-traits each that'd be influenced by proficiency in their corresponding R.E.A.S.O.N. stat, with specific bonuses for each...

RAGE
Histrionics, Rationality, Pragmatism, Sarcasm

EMPATHY
Faultfinding, Foresight, Respect, Circlejerk

ABILITY
Understanding, Obsession, Apathy, Connection

SINCERITY
Levity, Honesty, Vulgarity, Proofread

OBSERVANCE
Verification, Curiosity, Worldliness, Persistence

NERVE
Skin, Security, Risk, Stand

Still working on this on paper...

This Spectrum map has had a few tendencies renamed since I saved this version. In the game, your core ideology will be tacked onto your tendency title. For myself, I'd fall into "Chaoz", and since that belongs in the "Revoltik" ideology, it becomes "Chaoz-Revoltik".
Attachment:
File comment: titles are negotiable by those that feel insulted by them.
massdebate_tendencies_draft4.png
massdebate_tendencies_draft4.png [ 114.4 KiB | Viewed 79 times ]

Here are the symbols I've made for the ideologies. I haven't made any designs on the computer of any of the tendencies yet, and only have about 50 even drawn out; that'll be some more work. You'll notice the scheme I've used here... the last letter of each tendency corresponds to the symbol I've designed for their core ideologies. The "extremes" are letters found at the end of the alphabet. Sorry if the Libertik folks don't like their goofy-as-shit Y tendencies. :lol: The tendency symbols themselves aren't based on letters. Just an organizational idea that turned out helpful and I decided to use it to make simple symbols. Also sorry if you don't feel represented here. This game will upset most Communists since I'm going to bite my tongue and grind the word through the mud that it has come to know as home. "Communik" is meant to represent the forceful state command economy seen in the Soviet Union and self-titled as Communism.
Attachment:
File comment: the bias is seen here in that revoltik's looks the coolest.
massdebate_ideographs.png
massdebate_ideographs.png [ 27.5 KiB | Viewed 458 times ]


Reading Wikipedia articles about arguments, I've wondered if it'd be possible to actually have a game where you match ideographs with bias, sources, and maybe aggressiveness. Rules and standards that outline points, damage, reputation, etc. I've already created a lot of work for myself. Tying this all together will be interesting. It kind of makes me excited to think about. I have always wanted a mix of my two favourite passions. Politics and role-playing games.

Feel free to critique the tendency names, especially the Fiscalite ones (which many of you may fall into) as the ones I've come with are decently biased, lame, and aren't very descriptive.

If you want to compare yourself on that spectrum, do the standard political spectrum test and flip the libertarian/authoritarian axis. Let me know how accurate you consider your position. www.politicalcompass.org

Let you know more as it develops...


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:59 pm
 


You need to get a girlfriend.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:02 pm
 


I think it's pretty easy to tell why I don't have one, :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 5:51 am
 


ShepherdsDog wrote:
You need to get a girlfriend.


^^^


If I can't scope it, hold my breath, and blow the top of it's skull off - it's not a 'game'. :D


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:00 am
 


I prefer space based weapons platforms and nukes.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:21 am
 


I've long advocated a model of political spectrum that is not the classic Western left-right alignment but instead a free/less-free alignment.


Free <-------------> Centrist/Balanced <-----------> Authoritarian


Given that there are civilizations on this planet who absolutely do not relate to the classic Western political spectrum I believe this is a more global model of political spectrum.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:25 am
 


You've been reading Starship troopers again, haven't you?!?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:32 am
 


ShepherdsDog wrote:
You've been reading Starship troopers again, haven't you?!?


No. Just being a little more aware of the world around me is all.

For instance, Islamic countries do not align on left/right at all. But free/less-free would apply as some Islamic countries are more free than others.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:26 pm
 


BartSimpson wrote:
I've long advocated a model of political spectrum that is not the classic Western left-right alignment but instead a free/less-free alignment.


Free <-------------> Centrist/Balanced <-----------> Authoritarian


Given that there are civilizations on this planet who absolutely do not relate to the classic Western political spectrum I believe this is a more global model of political spectrum.

This alignment is seen on the vertical axis of my chart. I choose to believe there's a difference between an anarcho-capitalist and an anarcho-communist, so I use the horizontal axis to differentiate the two. The key detail in my mind with the chart I've designed is that none of these ideologies should like each other - there is enough difference of opinion that it could be reasonably assumed that an argument is possible between any ideology, a Socialite vs. a Revoltik for example.

Frankly, I don't know of an ideology that doesn't fit into this ideology map. Islamist states would most often EASILY fall under Reactite or Fascik. They are definitely right-wing states, heavily reactionary theocrats. Their ideal ideograph would be something like "Fundamental" or "Traditional", which is part of why I consider them reactionary. But if you don't like me calling them "right-wing", you can be comforted in knowing that "Reactite" is neither specifically left nor right wing.


Last edited by Public_Domain on Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:30 pm
 


DrCaleb wrote:
If I can't scope it, hold my breath, and blow the top of it's skull off - it's not a 'game'. :D

You don't play any thinkers? :( Never dabbled in a decent top-view Rogue-like? Honestly I was expecting a slightly more supportive response from you, :oops:

I want a game where people stress about their decisions and hold their breath - I don't intend to let people "save". I want people to lose but still have something to play for.

I feel like I could count on one hand the amount of games that are being pushed this month that are not first-person shooter games. The market is saturated. What's new? Different skins? Lighting effects? Dust particles?

Play one shooter game and you've played literally all of them... Now I only play those kind of games for the story. Nothing new about sniping someone, I'm sure I can find a couple dozen games to satisfy that craving...


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:44 pm
 


I'm thinking you forgot to put the r in the title.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:48 pm
 


Yes, yes, that's the diamond-quality comedy I'm offering here, :lol:

I have a vision of cover art showing two parents standing in a doorway of their dimly-lit son's room while he sits at his computer chair with his pants down and a forum on his screen.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:50 pm
 


Public_Domain wrote:
Islamist states would most often EASILY fall under Reactite or Fascik. They are definitely right-wing states, heavily reactionary theocrats.


Islamic states tend to be authoritarian dictatorships - even when they have elected governments they're not really democratic in the way we think of a democracy.

And, no, they are not right-wing states and they are not left-wing states...not even the Islamic states like Egypt under Nasser which had socialist elements.

And I disagree with their theocracies being reactionary (save for Iran circa 1979 to about 1985). They run their countries under Sharia to varying degrees and their 'reactions' are governed by previously decided upon rules and mores. That's not really reactionary.

Reactionary governance is what we have these days. Something happens and our politicians and much of our public wants "something done about it" and they don't really care if what is being done is actually going to impact the problem. It's just theatre to please the simple minded masses who anymore think in alignment with the news cycles and will forget about mass murders the very moment news breaks about Bruce Jenner or what dress Michelle Obama is wearing tonight.

Islamism may sometimes resemble facets of our political paradigms but underlining it at all times is their religion and in typical fashion most secularists fail to acknowledge this because they don't understand the power of faith and how pervasive it can be. It's not entirely your fault because you're accustomed to ersatz Christians who can go to church on Sunday morning and then go to a bar on Sunday afternoon to cuss, drink, and watch sports with their friends in a veritable orgy of homoeroticism. And they also go for that 'separation of church and state' thing the same way you do and they leave their faith at church 6.5 days per week.

Islam pervades every nation and person who embraces it. Islam is the form of politics in Islamic countries and that some of these countries have aspects of left/right no more makes them left/right than Packard hubcaps make a 1978 Pinto into a Packard.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:54 pm
 


Sorry Bart, I edited my post while you were writing all that. "Reactite" is neither left or right-wing, it is the "Moderate Authoritarian" position, with neither Communist nor Capitalist-specific slants.

You don't like sports? I would have taken you to at least be a football sort of guy.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:57 am
 


Public_Domain wrote:
DrCaleb wrote:
If I can't scope it, hold my breath, and blow the top of it's skull off - it's not a 'game'. :D

You don't play any thinkers? :( Never dabbled in a decent top-view Rogue-like? Honestly I was expecting a slightly more supportive response from you, :oops:

I want a game where people stress about their decisions and hold their breath - I don't intend to let people "save". I want people to lose but still have something to play for.

I feel like I could count on one hand the amount of games that are being pushed this month that are not first-person shooter games. The market is saturated. What's new? Different skins? Lighting effects? Dust particles?

Play one shooter game and you've played literally all of them... Now I only play those kind of games for the story. Nothing new about sniping someone, I'm sure I can find a couple dozen games to satisfy that craving...


Yes, I used to play lots of 'thinking' sort of games. C&C, Warhammer (tabletop and video), Infestation, Grand Turismo . . .

It's just lately, I get home and I don't feel like thinking. I want to work out some aggression on inanimate objects. :evil:

The game you propose seems interesting, but it feel more like 'homework' and less like 'entertainment'.


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