[Action-Jackson]

Exactly.<br /> <br /> When do you start Cree lessons?

[GreatWhiteNorth]

Huh? Cree Lessons? Not sure if you have the right thread partner. Or maybe i just don't understand you sarcasm. Like i said, i don't want this thread to become a one comment show. But thanks for your knowledge on this topic!?! <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/rolleyes.gif' alt='Rolling Eyes'>

[shaggz1928]

GreatWhiteNorth... you really know how to upset people... including myself... but I am not upset at you for posting such a controversial topic... I am upset because I completely agree with you and the posting... we have become a minority in our own country... we are probably the only country that bends over backwards to make everyone else happy... WHAT ABOUT US??? I don't see other countries doing it... and I believe that they shouldn't have to just to be "politically correct"...<br /> <br /> that's enough for now...

[Marcarc]

Interesting tactic, have a racist comment but cushion it with statements claiming it is not racist. <br /> <br /> Canada was not 'founded' on any principles, you are confusing yourself with an american. What 'united' Canada was the British North America Act of 1867. If you actually bother to read it, you'll notice that it is primarily a business document which organized trade and industry. It does not set out social values and certainly not christian ones. <br /> <br /> "Standing on guard for thee" doesn't mean any more in christian parlance than any other one. In fact, the lyrics were changed by a special joint committee of the senate and house in 1968. I don't remember Jesus talking too much about committee's. And just because we have an 'anthem' that doesn't mean much. I mean, most provinces have a 'provincial bird' but that rarely grants the creatures many perks.<br /> <br /> There have been atheists in Canada for as long as christians, in fact, natives have a far better religion in my opinion-it is one that treats not only people but animals and spaces as sacred, not just 'some' people as most religions are wont to do. I'd love to learn Cree incidentally.<br /> <br /> But under the charter people are under no obligations. Don't want to learn the language? Don't bother. In fact lots don't. The weird thing is the racists out there who seem so upset that people don't learn the language, even though the offenders don't even understand them, and couldn't care less. All an official language means is what language you are serviced in. I've never heard a chinese person complain that they are not served at the DMV in chinese. In fact, it makes far more sense in Toronto to have chinese than french. You'll hardly find a french person behind a government counter in southern ontario anyway. <br /> <br /> In Hamilton you're more likely to confront an italian, and in Kitchener a german. I've actually NEVER heard newcomers to canada bitch about the flag or pledge. In fact, I know many chinese, and their houses are usually plastered with canadian flags. As for the right to leave, well, keep in mind that other great canadian facet-complaining. Nobody complains like a canadian, it seems odd that some want to rob new canadians of that right that has been perfected over a century. But for some reason, some people only think their complaints have merit.<br /> <br /> So in contrast to the above posters, <br /> <br /> <br /> "Welcome to Canada, don't want to learn the language, don't bother. Got a different God, good for you. To fit in, all we ask is you don't blow anything up and like your religion probably already teaches you, try to be nice. We do have a charter, so if your religion happens to think your wife is worth less than you, then that's a problem. However, whether you're talking punjabi, hindi, cree, italian or german, have a good time. Don't expect much from your new government, nobody else does."

[Dr Caleb]

[QUOTE BY= GreatWhiteNorth]Happy Reading and hope we can keep this thread civilized.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Hulk hopes so too.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Marcarc] <br /> "Welcome to Canada, don't want to learn the language, don't bother. Got a different God, good for you. To fit in, all we ask is you don't blow anything up and like your religion probably already teaches you, try to be nice. We do have a charter, so if your religion happens to think your wife is worth less than you, then that's a problem. However, whether you're talking punjabi, hindi, cree, italian or german, have a good time. Don't expect much from your new government, nobody else does."[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Well said!

[GreatWhiteNorth]

WWWOOOOO!!! I would like to start by thanking you for commmenting on this thread, but i would like to clarify that what i posted was an actual article from a Toronto newspaper and that i posted the entirety and not just what i wanted to talk about. I personally don't have a problem with people speaking another language, or believing in another god. What i do have a problem with is my children coming home asking me why there are no Merry Christmas banner allowed at there school any more, and last year the christmas break was to from now on be called the winter break. The simple reason behind these changes are that some "immigrant" families found it insulting for there children to being exposed to theses terms. As far back as i can remember it was always the christmas break, and actually had meaning to me. Now it's gone, and for what? Simply to please these newcomers, sorry for the lack of better term. Why should we change the way we do things, just to please these people. I have nothing against immigrants in general, but if my wife and i would move to Iran, would they change there "law" about women not being allowed to expose there skin in public...NOT A CHANCE. So why do we? My daughter cannot bring a pocket knife to school (for good reasons) but a child from another country can bring his "ceremonial" dagger to school?! How about the Pakistani RCMP officer, the uniform dress code was changed for them cause they refused to remove there turbines to wear the mounty hat?! And you agree with these 2 issues in particular. Or even more my brother in law is a trucker and was held up at a shipping yard for 4 days cause the paskitani drivers refused to remove there turbines and wear a hard hat like every other worker or delivery driver has to do for safety reasons. I agree with you on some issues concerning language and even the fact that yes we are constant complainers (us canadians that is). And as for the native issues, I live with a native women and have to beautiful native children, and spend alot of my time on there land (the reserves), but i don't see many if any changes we had to nake to our way of living as to not insult them. Again i emphasize that i am not trying to make myself off to be a racist but it angers me that changes are being made to better suit some of these immigrants that supposedly came to this wonderful country to find a better and safer life.<br /> Thanks,<br /> GreatWhiteNorth<br />

[Brother Jonathan]

<b>GreatWhiteNorth</b>,<br /> <br /> are you absolutely sure that this originally came from a Toronto newspaper editorial? The paragraph that began <i>We speak ENGLISH/FRENCH, …</i> seemed to have a rather American voice to me (my being one, perhaps I have an ear for it), and a little searching turned up <a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20020213210735/http://vietnow.com/artbar1.htm">this archived article from <i>VietNow National Magazine</i></a>. Contrast and compare this article with the one that you’d posted. (Further background on the archived article can be found at the <a href="http://www.snopes.com/rumors/american.htm">Urban Legends Reference Pages</a>.)<br /> <br /> <b>Marcarc</b>,<br /> <br /> shouldn’t that start <i>Welcome to Canada, don’t want to learn</i> either <i>language, …</i>? <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/wink.gif' alt='Wink'>

[Dr Caleb]

[QUOTE BY= GreatWhiteNorth] i would like to clarify that what i posted was an actual article from a Toronto newspaper and that i posted the entirety and not just what i wanted to talk about. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Speaking of which, if you quote another's work, it's customary to include a link to it. Copyright and all. They can come back to us some point in the future demanding we remove the quoted text, and I'd have to delete this or any other thread at their request.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= GreatWhiteNorth]<br /> What i do have a problem with is my children coming home asking me why there are no Merry Christmas banner allowed at there school any more, and last year the christmas break was to from now on be called the winter break. The simple reason behind these changes are that some "immigrant" families found it insulting for there children to being exposed to theses terms. <br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> If you could actually find one of these mythical 'immigrant families' I'd be impressed. I don't know of a single religion or culture that would be offended at the message of peace and love that is <i>supposed</i> to be Christmas. I'd really like to hear or read even one Canadian immigrant say that they were offended by Christmas.<br /> <br /> I, and others here, suspect that such changes to our culture from the politically correct crowd are just another way for someone to force their ideals and morals on others. 'Holiday Tree', 'Winter Break', 'Spring Holiday'. <br /> <br /> Bullshit.

[Marcarc]

I wasn't commenting on a certain person, just the ideas presented. <br /> <br /> A good read is the protestant reformation, in particular its economic effects. Calvinism and Lutheranism were largely 'pushed' on the populations by feudal lords. Why? Well, it seems that Catholics had too damn many 'all saints days'. In other words, during the middle ages, while we think of them as grim and endless working, the reality was that people generally only worked four days out of the week, and just enough to get the food they needed.<br /> <br /> You find its effects right up to the present, in traditionally catholic countries like Ireland and even France, the stereotype is that they are 'lazy' because they weren't working non stop. <br /> <br /> In New Brunswick it is much the same, as acadians were always seen as shiftless partyers who wouldn't do a day's work. In Canada in general natives are seen the same way.<br /> <br /> In reality, these cultures simply don't believe that the purpose of life is to work. Work is meant to provide basic sustenance and thats it. The protestant work ethic is completely messed up.<br /> <br /> What this has to do with the issue at hand is quite simple. These cultures have had their way of life annihilated. Festive native days? Can anybody name ONE? As for christianity, virtually all of them have been thrown out the window. And people are grousing because there's been a name change? <br /> <br /> In fact, it is more likely that school board officials changed things in order to avoid any messiness, as said above, rarely are such things heard by immigrants. Canada is a heavily racist country, particularly our institutions, so immigrants here generally keep their mouths shut.<br /> <br /> As for turbans, who the *&^% cares what people wear on their head? I thought that was retarded to make a deal out of it in the first place. Have you SEEN the RCMP headgear? It's the most impractical piece of clothing possible.<br /> <br /> As for the dagger, the simple question is what a weapon is FOR. Your child can't justify bringing a pocket knife to school, there is simply no need for it. If somebody has a religion that requires it, who cares? In a school you are better off armed with a chair anyway, and it is in plain view, so he'd have to be an idiot to try something.<br /> <br /> So thats two, I couldn't even understand what that other one was. However, to be blunt, I think its ridiculous that people think of these as 'big issues' for cultural identity. Last night was a show called "The Killing Seeds" about how virtually all the west is now growing GM crops of Monsanto's and how our food supply is under control of two companies. Farmers are locked into contracts that essentially makes them managers on their own farms, and people are pissed that their kids say "Happy Winter"? Get real, the world and the country are falling under fascist control and we're going to argue because there's no nativity scene on public schools?

[Marcarc]

Oh yeah, and if your argument is based on "they don't do it in Iran, we should be more like Iranians" then you're definitely at the wrong site.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

Ok i see i got your goat? I really don't care that you don't think it's a big deal, but i think it is and you're missing the point!! OK so you don't like the looks or practicality of the mounties hats, that is and has been the uniform for many years. The point is we made exceptions for these turban heads. Maybe that sounds a little harsh and racist but you're not listening, what you're doing is giving me a history lesson about catholics (which i am). I must admit you are much more knowledgeable in your history then i am, and i respect that, but the little i know and hear about the fuss being made by immigrants (not canadians) is upsetting me. As for the article not coming from a Toronto paper, honestly i can't confirm this, it was simply sent to me the way i posted it by a friend. I will try to delete that portion if i can, and if not i encourage a moderator to please remove it as to not cause any copyright infringement.<br /> Till the next time,<br /> Take care of yourself and each other,<br /> GreatWhiteNorth

[shaggz1928]

greatwhitenorth... you make a good point that everyone is gettting off topic... I dont think your origianl post was intended to start a debate on religion, but was meant to get point of views about what people think about the points you are arguing... the thing you said about the knife vs dagger... I agree, my nefew got a week's suspension for bringing a butter knife to school (a god damn butter knife) for the purpose of putting mayo on a sandwich... he didnt pull it on anyone, he took it out of his lunch box along with the mayo, the teacher noticed the knife and yada yada yada he got suspended... and a dagger has no other purpose then to be a weapon (even if the child had no intention of using it as one), no matter how you look at it... and if a knife is a knife is a knife, then there should be NO exceptions, NONE...

[GreatWhiteNorth]

Thanks for your input Shaggz1928 (1928 is hopefully not your birthday..lol) but anyhow, we are actually on the same page. Getting off topic for sure, i am simply trying to express my disatisfaction with these exceptions. I know i must be careful about my expressing my feelings especially when the other posts are coming from mods and others with good post counts, cause if this forum operates like others as soon as you get too strong on your points it's a ban or the thread is closed. This thread is not going to my liking already, maybe i am taking this too personal since i am not a typical forum surfer and such. I have done some forum read and commenting but didn't expect this kind of response. Again besides the article i posted, everything i wrote is my personal OPINION. I am not here to preach, and recruit but to simply get others OPINIONS. I expected some critisism but...<br /> Enough said for now,<br /> GWN<br /> <br /> P.S. Article removed from original post, since it was thought to have been written by an american (maybe the accent or spelling errors gave it away)!?

[Dr Caleb]

[QUOTE BY= GreatWhiteNorth]I know i must be careful about my expressing my feelings especially when the other posts are coming from mods and others with good post counts, cause if this forum operates like others as soon as you get too strong on your points it's a ban or the thread is closed. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> We do have rules. http://www.vivelecanada.ca/multifaq/ind ... tlevel=003<br /> <br /> Basically, mentioning race, immigration, skin colour etc is NOT racism. When someone uses that as a basis for discrimination, then it is. We go by the Criminal Code of Canada's definition of racism. <br /> <br /> As far as locking goes, I try to keep it friendly, but when it strays to the point of namecalling - it gets locked.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= GreatWhiteNorth]<br /> P.S. Article removed from original post, since it was thought to have been written by an american (maybe the accent or spelling errors gave it away)!?[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> If it was in an email, then it's OK. But don't trust emails that purport to be from some organization that are unsubstantiated, or you'll be forewarding lots of emails to everyone on the planet because Bill Gates, IBM and Chicken Little tell you to.<br /> <br /> I couldn't find the article on the Web, so it may indeed be written by some white supremacist org. for the soul intention of using the simmering racism/immigration ties to divide Canadians apart.

[Marcarc]

And it sounds virtually like the opposite type of letter than the Toronto Star would publish. As said, nobody is calling anybody racist, I think the letter itself WAS racist, that's just my opinion, as always. <br /> <br /> Why anybody would care about these things is beyond me. The RCMP, for example, has changed outfits dozens of times, they are not ones for historical complacently. How many times have you seen red coats, riding pants, and round brim hats in a squad car? A turban accomplishes everything that RCMP hats does. If on the SWAT team, he'd have to wear a helmet.<br /> <br /> As for the knife, that at least has SOME credibility, I can well imagine being concerned about a dagger in school, and I doubt that story is over, even though the media doesn't cover it anymore. As for the butter knife, nothing personal, but this is the web and people can say anything. At least link to a story or something. I've heard far too many 'urban myths' that pop up whenever an issue gains some popularity. <br /> <br /> So this thread seems to just be about being p&^^%ed off about turbans, daggers, and 'Merry Christmas'. In immigration there are HUGE issues. Go talk to some immigration organizations and talk about their problems. They are far more likely to live in poverty, have enormous hardships in finding employment, not too mention the rampant difficulties obvious in communities where they are visibly minorities. <br /> <br /> The immigration department has huge issues, indian men can pay 50 grand in order to come to Canada in order to divorce their wives back in india and leave them in poverty. Canada's 'domestic servant' program has long been a form of institutionalized slavery. There are dozens of other issues, so forgive some of us if we think wearing a turban or not saying 'Merry Christmas' isn't a big deal.