[andyt]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/101031/world/eu_med_dangerous_alcohol

$1:

But overall, alcohol outranked all other substances, followed by heroin and crack cocaine. Marijuana, ecstasy and LSD scored far lower.

They're using lethal in the wider sense, ie including social effects, so the headline is a bit misleading. They should use harmful instead of lethal.

[Dragom]

To be fair, I think if Alcohol was illegal and there was a strong culture of going to the Bar on friday night and doing Crystal Meth as part of our mating ritual, things might be worse then they are now.

[ShepherdsDog]

A British ER doctor was slammed when he stated E was less harmful than alcohol. He and his colleagues treated quite a few people for alcohol poisoning and injuries resulting from alcohol consumption, while very few people were hospitalized due to use of E....unless they tried hugging the wrong person.

[Newsbot]

Title: Study: Alcohol is the most lethal drug
Category: Health
Posted By: Curtman
Date: 2010-10-31 16:49:15

[Curtman]

$1:

The modelling showed that as well as being the most harmful drug overall, alcohol is almost three times as harmful as cocaine or tobacco.
...
�Our findings lend support to previous work in the UK and the Netherlands, confirming that the present drug classification systems have little relation to the evidence of harm."

Just say no to prohibition.

Edit: ... And yes now I realize that andyt started this thread here instead of in the news section. I hope the mods can merge these threads.

[Curtman]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

A British ER doctor was slammed when he stated E was less harmful than alcohol. He and his colleagues treated quite a few people for alcohol poisoning and injuries resulting from alcohol consumption, while very few people were hospitalized due to use of E....unless they tried hugging the wrong person.

That doctor is the same person doing the study.

$1:

Prof Nutt was chairman of the government’s Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs until he was dismissed last year after saying ecstasy was less harmful than alcohol.

[andyt]

I don't start threads in the news section anymore, because it gets me put on double secret probation. Apparently the rules are less stringent for non-news posts.

[Curtman]

andyt andyt:

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/101031/world/eu_med_dangerous_alcohol

$1:

But overall, alcohol outranked all other substances, followed by heroin and crack cocaine. Marijuana, ecstasy and LSD scored far lower.

They're using lethal in the wider sense, ie including social effects, so the headline is a bit misleading. They should use harmful instead of lethal.

No, they're using lethal in the literal sense, in that its use causes more death than any other drug.

$1:

Experts said alcohol scored so high because it is so widely used and has devastating consequences not only for drinkers but for those around them.
...
When drunk in excess, alcohol damages nearly all organ systems. It is also connected to higher death rates and is involved in a greater percentage of crime than most other drugs, including heroin.
...
"We cannot return to the days of prohibition"
...
He said governments should consider more education programs and raising the price of alcohol so it isn't as widely available.

[andyt]

If you hear of the lethality of a substance, don't you think of how many people it kills from overdose vs the number of people using it? I do, and ETOH has a lot a lot more room for overdose than does heroin. Herion is a very safe drug if used in correct dosage, but it's easy to get the dose wrong, especially with street heroin. Alcohol is more forgiving.

They are also talking about the social consequences, ie driving, domestic violence etc.

As Dragon has pointed out, if our societies drug of choice was crystal meth, it would be at the top of the lethality chaing.

And they're taking into account potential for addiction - has nothing to do with lethality. If you have a clean supply of heroin and accurate dosing, you can have a huge jones but never die from it.

[Public_Domain]

I think it is extremely obvious that alcohol has catastrophic effects in society.

I don't know anyone effected by heroin personally, but I know dozens of people
with horrific stories of alcohol, from relationship violence to fathers beating
the snot out of their kids to constant fights and outright insanity.

[Public_Domain]

andyt andyt:

If you hear of the lethality of a substance, don't you think of how many people it kills from overdose vs the number of people using it? I do, and ETOH has a lot a lot more room for overdose than does heroin. Herion is a very safe drug if used in correct dosage, but it's easy to get the dose wrong, especially with street heroin. Alcohol is more forgiving.

On heroin for a sec, they say it can cure heroin addiction if used properly.

[RUEZ]

The problem is, as with most things we enjoy, people don't usually drink moderately. Binge drinking is the norm. If people could limit themselves to one or two, alcohol would be as harmful as drinking pop.

[Dragom]

They cure heroin addiction by getting people hooked on methadone and quitting that cold turkey a lot worse then quitting heroin.

It basically allows a nurse to dictate the terms of your life for the next year.

Your probably better off with the 3 days of hell road.

[andyt]

I'm not arguing that alcohol isn't way more destructive to society than heroin under current conditions. I don't know what would be the effect if you reversed legality of the two, whether alcohol would still be more damaging.

I am sure that compared to alcohol, legalizing pot would add only minor harm to society. In fact if it gets a binger to mellow out a bit it might actually have a positive effect.

[Dragom]

RUEZ RUEZ:

The problem is, as with most things we enjoy, people don't usually drink moderately. Binge drinking is the norm. If people could limit themselves to one or two, alcohol would be as harmful as drinking pop.

Everything would be dandy in moderation. Having a opium laced cookie for an actual headache, enjoying a casual joint after dinner on Sunday, One cup of coffee in the morning, Two beers after work on Friday, One cigarette in the evening.

It would be great, but humans don't do that.