[Kory Yamashita]

[QUOTE]When I first started here I had some trouble getting logged in in. That actually bothered me because I believe in what I say. That's why I say it. [/QUOTE] I couldn't agree with you more, Rev. I post under my full real name. Twenty years down the line my views my have changed drastically, but I refuse to hid from the fact that they are my views at this moment in time. </p> However, I understand the appeal of anonymity. However, creating an account here with a username doesn't really discourage anonymity. I'm sure it would be easy to fill it out with fake names and a hotmail account under a fake name as well. The fact is that it takes time and most people are lazy. </P> But while I believe anonymous login to be unnecessary, I also believe that it's within a person's right to request it. We don't seek exclusivity here; just the opposite, in fact. So we should continue to inclue those who choose to post anonymously, though they ought to be aware that people won't see a continuity in their posts. </P> Jesse, is there any way you could update the code so that when someone posts anonymously, it warns them of the lack of continuity, etc?? (Since comments go through a preview page anyways, it would be pretty easy to add this, wouldn't it?)

[Jim Callaghan]

I think you will find many anons would open themselves to work-related problems, and want to participate without the other hassles that can go along with it. Some employers could take action against an employee for saying certain things, for instance. Of course, there are always going to be fringe "experts" that don't want us to know who they are, or even where they are from.

[tifani]

But shouldn`t your user name be able to protect you from that?

[Dr Caleb]

[QUOTE BY= tifani] But shouldn`t your user name be able to protect you from that?[/QUOTE] Yes, and no. People post as Anon's under the mistaken assumption that it makes them 'invisible'. They are no more or less visible than someone posting with a UserID/Name. <p> Some post using a 'proxy' which is a website that will load another website into it. That way, the website you are loading thinks the proxy is the real source/destination of the information, when the proxy is redirecting it somewhere else (and presumably without logging the event). The tinfoil hat crowd can use several proxys to further their parinoia.<p> But all of this becomes moot when you use internet access from within a company. Being Network Admin for my company, I know it's trivial to scavange logs of the corporate proxy to find out where people have been and for how long. I can do it any time, but I don't unless asked to by higher ups. Frankly, I just don't care .<p>

[Jesse]

[QUOTE BY= Dr Caleb]People post as Anon's under the mistaken assumption that it makes them 'invisible'. They are no more or less visible than someone posting with a UserID/Name. <p> [/QUOTE] Just so no one worries, vive does minimal logging so we can tell where our readers come from; everybody gets lumped into a summary at the end of the month and that's it. The effort required to tie individual posts to a particular ISP is way more work than it's worth.

[Calumny]

Unfortunately the selecting 'anonymous' as a no see doesn't work for comments. <br /> <br />While it's true that a userid is no guarantee of desirable behaviour, it's also true that anonymity is often counted on by the spineless to shield them from potential consequences for their actions. <br /> <br />I think 'democratic' related points made by stransky some few months back are a bit of a stretch. I don't believe the democratic principles which support a secret ballot also encompass a right to anonymously assail others with inane and/or insulting comments. <br /> <br />Stransky's other comments don't hold water. <br /> <br />Most anon postings I've seen are not in the nature of carefully thought out commentary to which the author may have qualms about being associated. Most seem off the cuff pointless ramblings that often exist only because there is little or no effort required by the author in the posting. <br /> <br />I don't think discontinuance of anon posting for news articles would diminish the value of Vive, reduce the number of those who choose to become members or hasten the crumbling of our cherished democratic institutions. On the other hand, if I came across Vive and came across numerous anon insulting and/or inane (isRAel, NWO) type comments, my initial impression of the site wouldn't be great. <br /> <br />I would like someone to show me where anon posting of any type is of benefit to Vive or those who've chosen to become members, because this, rather than some nebulous concept of supporting web democracy for the gutless and disturbed, is to me the primary issue. <br />

[4Canada]

Calumny, <br /> <br /> First. what if any meaning does isRAel have? I don't get it. Also what does NWO mean? <br /> <br /> Second. The annoying anon postings on a very basic level are equivalent to sitting in a restaurant trying to have conversation and being harrassed by someone. There I would have the option of making rude comments back (knowing me that's likely how I'd start), getting pysical with them, (not an option for me), having them thrown out or arrested. I don't think there needs to be any political correctness discussion on this issue at all. We just have to decide do we want to listen to the noise over our dinner conversaton, have the maitre d' throw the person out or call the cops? Just going over it this way I can see that my only choice would be the throw out or call the cops options.

[Calumny]

I have no idea re: isRAel, just a reference that keeps popping in in some of the more inane anon posts. Somehow, I doubt it's a flattering reference. <br /> <br />NWO is New World Order, one of the many organizations bent on world domination, and another recent addition to the more dubious anon posts. <br /> <br />The other option in your scenario would be to get up and walk out yourself. However, that seems neither fair to you or good business for the restaurant, in that eventually desirable customers would not be dropping by, leaving restaurant patrons composed entirely of the rude, ignorant and obnoxious crowd. <br /> <br />

[Calumny]

Just to clarify, I don't even mind the inane postings, as long as there is some reasonable semblance of politeness.

[Milton]

I think there should be a check box added to our preferences page that would, when checked, not display anonymous comments on the members screen. Then all of us, who are tired of the inane propaganda spewed by some of the anonymous users, could turn off their comments. I think some of these guys main agenda is to distract our communicative efforts. I don't care if they post, I just don't want to have to wade through their crap.

[4Canada]

Calumny, <br /> <br /> Funny, I never even considered the walking out and never coming back option. Come to think of it, I wasn't with my husband in that analogy. <br /> <br /> Milton. Is there a shutup button option? That would be okay.

[Stymiest]

[QUOTE BY= arc628] Is there any way to make people sign up before they can participate? IMO there is way too many anonymous posters. It's great to see so much interest in the site, but if people are committed to the cause they shouldn't mind signing up. Am I the only one who is bothered by this?[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />I am also bothered by this it adds to the amount of bullshit this site gets put into it. Also if someone is going to put something down atleast give their alias so they can be rightfully told where to go. <br /> <br />Lol Are they just to insecure with their views to do something like that. I know I have been told a few times but I am still not afraid to post what I believe.

[sthompson]

I think the best solution to this complaint is to allow users to set their preferences so that anonymous comments don't show up, as Jesse has said he will do. <br /> <br />However, I will not personally change my preferences and I want to say that I am firmly against actually eliminating anonymous postings by requiring anyone who wants to post a comment to sign up for a username. This isn't a nebulous issue of web democracy, it is a practical one and part of our mission. We are a forum that allows everyone to participate to some degree, and we have kept that forum open because our mission is to educate and debate, even with, and I would say especially with, those who don't agree with us. How else are we going to spread these ideas around? How are we going to wake people up and change minds? Do we want to end up talking only to ourselves? <br /> <br />We can't generalize as some people have done that all anonymous posters are trolls--of course they're not. They may not all be on our side or making intelligent comments either. But that doesn't mean they have any less "right" to participate than anyone else. Someone who gets angry enough to post might just start thinking more carefully about what they're, and we're, saying. <br /> <br />People will have many different reasons for choosing anonymity and while I wish everyone would become a member, I don't think it's our place to judge all anonymous users as spineless cowards. Many people prefer anonymity in an age when a boss or a potential boss etc may Google your name and judge you on that. For eg, Malcolm Azania, a teacher and radio personality in Edmonton who ran for the NDP in the federal election, had to publicly apologize for comments he made years ago in a public online forum after a minor scandal erupted when someone Googled him. Some prefer to avoid that risk, especially on a site that contains controversial material, which even with usernames can be a valid concern because someone could learn your username. As Jesse pointed out, many people don't see the point of signing up for a site they won't be returning to, or it just may not be a high priority. Some people are too lazy to worry about signing in before they post (and sometimes even regular users forget to log in before posting a comment). Working on efforts like this I've been amazed at how many people have only basic computer skills and find something simple like signing up for an email list or a user account intimidating enough not to try. I've also noticed that many people have become very leery of providing any personal information, even an email address, to a website because of fears about spam, viruses, and/or privacy concerns (and privacy is a concern of many people who visit our site). And as has been also already pointed out, many people begin posting anonymously and sign up later. <br /> <br />As for anonymous postings destroying the quality of discussion on Vive, you are free to ignore them which is likely the best way to discourage trolls anyway (don't feed the trolls). As members you can, after all, choose to post in the forum where no one will disturb your conversation--think of it as a reserved conference room, no danger of people at the other table talking over top of your private conversation. Please remember that any postings that cross the line into discrimination etc are deleted. So there is no danger of finding a lot of degrading anonymous comments on the site, as you can see by reading it. That's just not a valid argument because we have moderation powers. If you notice a comment or two that should be deleted, notify the editors. But I refuse to expand that policy to delete or prevent any comment deemed inane or insufficiently committed to our mission (eg the quote unquote rah rah bush crowd)--frankly, no one here posts valid, accurate, topical, worthwhile, brilliant and compelling comments every single time they decide to post, whether they are posting anonymously or not. We are entering very slippery and subjective territory there. I much prefer to keep our current site policy of minimum moderation of comments and article posts, esp comments, to allow free speech and exchange of ideas. <br /> <br />Also, I think the first post referred to commitment. You have to realize that there are always different levels of commitment to an organization, whether it's a web-based organization like this one, a political party, a church group, or anything else. Some people will refer to Vive once when they need info on a specific issue or are interested in one thing. Some people will follow our work and read what's happening. Some people will follow our work, read what's happening, and participate in an action. Some people will post a comment anonymously. Some people will sign up for membership and post an article. Some people will sign up for membership and post regularly. Some people will sign up for memberships, post regularly and volunteer. Some people will sign up for memberships, post regularly, volunteer and donate. Some people will sign up for memberships, post regularly, volunteer, donate, and actually serve on the board and make decisions about the site. ALL those levels of interest are important and help build the organization. There are VERY few people committed enough to do everything--how many of you have a membership, post regularly, volunteer to help with the site, donate regularly, AND serve on the board making decisions? We are definitely not rolling in volunteers or donations. But I don't criticize people's commitment and allow only the most committed to participate. Less than a handful of people would qualify if I (and we) did. <br /> <br />Remember, we do already have site policies that reward those who make the commitment to membership with more access to the site. Almost all people who post an actual article sign up for a username so that everyone knows who contributes the article. You can't access the forum without a username. We are able to change the settings on individual stories so that only members can read them, and as we grow and have more members and original content we will likely have more stories available only to members, meaning that no anonymous people will be able to comment on them either. We are already assigning activity ratings to members based on how often you post and once we are incorporated (any time now that we have a committed and active board) only active members will be able to do things like vote on policy and board members etc at annual general meetings or hold certain positions. There are even private areas of the site invisible to regular members for those members who are also volunteers and board members. <br /> <br />[In the past, we also wouldn't allow people to participate in actions without a username, but that inspired so many angry comments and emails that we decided to change it so that anonymous people could participate in actions. Many did--meaning they weren't all trolls, and helped support the site in a very important way.] <br /> <br />Lastly, Jesse can correct me on this if I'm wrong, but the fact is, based on our hits the majority of people visiting the site are doing so anonymously, since we have about 950 members and not all of you are logging in 5 times a day. Not all of those people post comments but obviously many do. It IS great to see that kind of interest in the site and the last thing I want to do is shut it down. I am absolutely certain it would hamper our growth and our reach. <br /> <br />So while I am more than grateful for all those who sign up for memberships, and for your commitment to the site and to serious discussion of the issues, I want to remind you all that there is a place on this site for those who don't share that level of commitment...yet. Let's continute to lead by example and try to change minds. That is, after all, the real purpose of this site--to protect and improve Canadian democracy, and at the very least, to allow all Canadians to have an actual debate on issues that all too often are decided for us, without any discussion at all, by elites. <br /> <br />