[Blue_Nose]

HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:

If someone had some up with a thread "Should wiffle ball violence be allowed" then i imagine some people would have been suprised that wiffle-ball had any violence. but since this is about the NHL violence it seems entirely reaasonable to talk about--- Duh! --- NHL violence.

It's you who directed the discussion into the larger context of violence, regardless of circumstance. You made the argument that all laws should apply to everyone all the time,

$1:

We're eithr equal under the law, and the law applies to everywhere in Canada or it doesnt,

So it's up to you to defend the "everywhere in Canada" part of your argument.

[2Cdo]

Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:

HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:

If someone had some up with a thread "Should wiffle ball violence be allowed" then i imagine some people would have been suprised that wiffle-ball had any violence. but since this is about the NHL violence it seems entirely reaasonable to talk about--- Duh! --- NHL violence.

It's you who directed the discussion into the larger context of violence, regardless of circumstance. You made the argument that all laws should apply to everyone all the time,

$1:

We're eithr equal under the law, and the law applies to everywhere in Canada or it doesnt,

So it's up to you to defend the "everywhere in Canada" part of your argument.

Hey Hyperion, what he said! Still haven't figured out which one is you?

[MrsC]

HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:

My concern is with hockey players who seem to think that they are somehow more 'special' than the rest of us.

I've never met a hockey player who had the attitude that they are "more 'special' than the rest of us". Yes, some of them have big egos and think they are better hockey players than the rest, but as for being "special" over the rest of the population of the world... never. Not in my personal experience. The players I know and have had the pleasure of meeting are the kindest, most wonderful people I know. Even the guys who are fighters on the ice.

As for fighting in the NHL - I'm all for it. You can't expect a guy to take a cheap shot and just shrug it off or expect his teammates to just let it go either. If they aren't aloud to fight, they'll find other ways to take out their aggression; others have already pointed that out so I am not going to repeat them. If a guy just sits back and takes cheap shots and doesn't defend himself or his teammates don't jump in to help him out then his entire career will be taking hits and nothing else. If someone hit you first, what would you do? Fight back to defend yourself or just cower against the wall and take it till they decided they were done with you? Unless you're crazy, you're going to fight back.

Speaking as the sister of a hockey player who had to watch her brother take a lot of cheap shots while he was on the ice I can say I was never happier than when he or one of his teammates decided enough was enough and let the guy(s) on the other team have it after they'd gotten away with several cheap shots. If girls had been allowed on the team you can bet I'd have been on the team, and the first to drop the gloves to defend my brother and the rest of the team as well. With guys who like to play dirty, that's the only way to tell them you're not going to take it from them. If you let them do it, then they will never let up on you. Give 'em a fight, they'll think twice about messing with you in the future.

[bootlegga]

Personally I don't care whether there are fights (in the NHL) or not. The argument that a fight can be a way to teach someone a lesson is true, but a big hit on the guy (in the corner or open ice) can send the same message.

I've played my share of hockey and had my share of fights, even with people who are still good friends to this day. To most of my hockey buddies, a fight is a totally legitimate way to let off some steam. Some of them are the type who beak off and then have to drop the gloves, while others just drop the gloves right away. Afterwards, we all have a good laugh and it's forgotten. As far as most of us are concerned, what happens on the rink stays there. I've had a couple of guys (strangers) who wouldn't let it go and threatened to 'meet me in the parking lot afterwards' to which I answer, I'll be there with Constable Smith and it's dropped pretty damned quick after that.

I'll be honest I've gotten in more hockey fights with friends than with strangers simply because it has only been recently (2001) that I started playing 'organized' hockey as opposed to shinny with the guys on the weekend. Lord knows, I'd rather get hit with a fist than someone's stick. Most people can't toss really hard punches on skates anyways, whereas it's very easy to give someone a concussion (or worse) with a hockey stick.

Having said all that, fights in NHL games do bring the blood up, but I'd just as soon see a breakaway or a great save. I think one of the best games I saw in recent years (except last year's playoff run) was when Atlanta came to Edmonton in Jan '04 and the game was full of scoring, big hits, and a fight or two. What made it great was all of those elements, not just one or two of them.

[canucker]

No surprise Bertuzzi was brought into the discussion. That is not what this thread is about. But because it was discussed, I'll just post my thoughts on the subject from a previous thread (long too long after the incident occured)...

$1:

At the time of the first game when Moore hit Naslund it was a close game and both teams were fighting for top spot in the northwest division. Nobody on the Canucks team wanted to retaliate at that point in fear that they would potentially blow the game by taking a bad penalty. Years ago issues like that were settled on the ice during the same game so it wouldn't carry over from game to game. Unfortunately the NHL has changed since then and stuff like this is brought into future games and bad incidents like this happen. Part of this problem is the instigator rule, IMO.

Moore did fight that night against Matt Cooke. However, Matt Cooke is one of the smallest guys on the Canucks and he isn't a very good fighter. Needless to say, Cooke didn't fair too well in the fight against Moore therefore the Canucks probably felt as though nothing was settled in that altercation. You must also keep in mind this game took place in Vancouver, the Canucks were embarrassed because they were getting blown out at home in an important game and sometimes emotions take over and cloud your mind of better judgement. I'm not condoning what Bertuzzi did, I'm just trying to explain the situation from a different point of view.

There are a lot of unwritten rules in hockey, and one of them is you don't take runs at the star players unless you are prepared to face the consequences. Clean hit or not, Moore took a run at Naslund and injured him. Hockey players have long memories and aren't going to forget that. Usually there are a few fights, and then it is over. Unfortuntately in this situation it didn't work out that way and a player got seriously injured and another player put a huge black eye on his reputation as a hockey player. Hopefully something like this doesn't happen again in the future.

Hockey gets a bad reputation for things like this happening but in reality usually the players are able to police themselves for the most part and there aren't any major problems like this. I'm sure everybody learned a few things from this unfortunate incident.

It's already been discussed and debated to death, so let's move on now. This thread is about hockey fighting in general.

[NewfieBullet]

Not going to argue the point but I say yes.

I spent a lot of time In Deer Lake Newfoundland watching Hockey in a small dingy arena. The drive from my hometown (CornerBrook) is about 40 min away. It was worth the drive, those boys were really something. Roughest hockey ive ever seen. Players like Darren Langdon would fight as many as 3 times a game or untill they coudent stand up. Most of players were long time friends and they would always shake hands and laugh when it was over.

Havent seen a game there in over 10 years now. Im shure its not like it was back in the Langdon days.