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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:13 pm
 


Sports_Master2008 wrote:
Mustang1 wrote:
Sports_Master2008 wrote:
Mustang1 wrote:
Sports_Master2008 wrote:
Mustang1 wrote:
evad54 wrote:
I was addressing the content


Not well. When you get a clue, shout and we'll see if you've made it beyond the Sun's typical readership.
Do you think Cliff or whoever the gm will be will resign Mats Sundin


Maybe. Depends on the GM. If Sundin wants 5-6 Million per year, what does that do for the rebuilding program? If Kubina or Tucker or McCabe are dealt with over the summer, than maybe Sundin's 1 year contract (he'll likely sign those as they give him freedom to reassess his career path each year) isn't such a bad deal. The only thing that will put me over edge is if he signs with another team after kicking Toronto in the nuts at the trade deadline (he could have easily garnered Hossa-type returns)
well of course he is going to watn 5 or 6 million he is a star in toronto he has led them in points goals and maybe assists for the past 5 years or more he deserves at least 5 million and it does alot cause he still has 4 or 5 more years in him and he wont resign with another team no matter h ow much money they offer him if he wanted to stay in Toronto at the deadline nothing is goin to change his mind


And what will throwing 5-6 million at him do the for the team? It won't bring a Stanley Cup and it won't bring a playoff spot, so why invest long-term? This kind of thinking brought McCabe, Blake, Kubina and Tucker and how's that currently working?
get them alot of offence which they lack of


And little defence and little chance of even getting into the playoffs and even less of a future. Blow this thing up...it's going nowhere and offense means squat when you're on the outside looking in at the playoffs


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:17 pm
 


Mustang1 wrote:
Sports_Master2008 wrote:
Mustang1 wrote:
Sports_Master2008 wrote:
Mustang1 wrote:
Sports_Master2008 wrote:
Mustang1 wrote:
evad54 wrote:
I was addressing the content


Not well. When you get a clue, shout and we'll see if you've made it beyond the Sun's typical readership.
Do you think Cliff or whoever the gm will be will resign Mats Sundin


Maybe. Depends on the GM. If Sundin wants 5-6 Million per year, what does that do for the rebuilding program? If Kubina or Tucker or McCabe are dealt with over the summer, than maybe Sundin's 1 year contract (he'll likely sign those as they give him freedom to reassess his career path each year) isn't such a bad deal. The only thing that will put me over edge is if he signs with another team after kicking Toronto in the nuts at the trade deadline (he could have easily garnered Hossa-type returns)
well of course he is going to watn 5 or 6 million he is a star in toronto he has led them in points goals and maybe assists for the past 5 years or more he deserves at least 5 million and it does alot cause he still has 4 or 5 more years in him and he wont resign with another team no matter h ow much money they offer him if he wanted to stay in Toronto at the deadline nothing is goin to change his mind


And what will throwing 5-6 million at him do the for the team? It won't bring a Stanley Cup and it won't bring a playoff spot, so why invest long-term? This kind of thinking brought McCabe, Blake, Kubina and Tucker and how's that currently working?
get them alot of offence which they lack of


And little defence and little chance of even getting into the playoffs and even less of a future. Blow this thing up...it's going nowhere and offense means squat when you're on the outside looking in at the playoffs
they have a great defence core especially some good young defenders like coliacavo,white,stralman and then you got the good veterans McCabe,Kaberle,Kubinaand there playing good hockey and getting good goaltending and when that happens you never know how things can turn out


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:26 pm
 


Sports_Master2008 wrote:
they have a great defence core especially some good young defenders like coliacavo,white,stralman and then you got the good veterans McCabe,Kaberle,Kubinaand there playing good hockey and getting good goaltending and when that happens you never know how things can turn out


Their defence suck...Toskala bails them out, more times than not. And this run will get them what, 9th place? Sneak into the playoffs and get turfed in the first round? How about nowhere, but out of the lottery range and they get NOTHING for the future. What makes you think this group of underachievers will do anything next season? Please don't tell me you're pinning this on Blake, a 38- year old Sundin, Tucker, McCabe, wonky Colaiacovo, Kubina? I hope half those overpriced stiffs are gone by next year and then this team can really retool for a run in a couple of years, but NOT without decent drafting!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:58 pm
 


Sundin's been with the Leafs since day one. Instead of shitting your pants over revamping the team (good luck with that, it will take several years and Sundin will be gone way after that anyways) I consider it a good thing that a superstar considers Canada home when all too many so called "Canadians" are all too willing to move to the states and even no matter how much money they are paid, don't want to play in Canada anyways.

Hey, how about Lidstrom....Sakic....old foggies with the same team who have no intention of leaving yet, one person on Toronto is apparently the cancer of the team. Jeeeeesus. No wonder nobody wants to stay in Canada.

Forsberg? Out of any playoff contending team, he chooses Colorado who may or may not make the playoffs...fuck him eh?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:37 pm
 


Mustang1 wrote:
Sports_Master2008 wrote:
they have a great defence core especially some good young defenders like coliacavo,white,stralman and then you got the good veterans McCabe,Kaberle,Kubinaand there playing good hockey and getting good goaltending and when that happens you never know how things can turn out


Their defence suck...Toskala bails them out, more times than not. And this run will get them what, 9th place? Sneak into the playoffs and get turfed in the first round? How about nowhere, but out of the lottery range and they get NOTHING for the future. What makes you think this group of underachievers will do anything next season? Please don't tell me you're pinning this on Blake, a 38- year old Sundin, Tucker, McCabe, wonky Colaiacovo, Kubina? I hope half those overpriced stiffs are gone by next year and then this team can really retool for a run in a couple of years, but NOT without decent drafting!


Id like to know how their defence sucks i really do and so what if they get turffed in the first round at least they made it there and they already have a decent future kids in the marlies. so blake had a rough season every player does id like to know some of the players that are overpriced stiffs. i want to know who you want gone so they can rebuild because if half of there players were gone there would be no Toronto especially if you took out sundin,kaberle,blake,tucker,McCabe


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:44 pm
 


the 'frozen five' as they're now called. it was their decision, whether or not 'it's good for business'. everyone thinks differently, no matter how much the media and fans will bash the leafs. after all, it's just a game.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:14 pm
 


Sports_Master2008 wrote:
Id like to know how their defence sucks i really do


Simple, it's called over 200 GA and that's good enough for 4th worst in the NHL. I'd like to know how that makes it good in your eyes.


Quote:
and so what if they get turffed in the first round at least they made it there and they already have a decent future kids in the marlies


Because the goal is to win the Stanley Cup! What does getting your ass handed to IF you make the playoffs? No decent draft picks and the same crap for the following year. And the Marlies? Like who? Maybe Pogge, but who's demonstrated anything beyond simple average NHLer. And that's not good enough for a Stanley Cup. I guess as a fan, my expectations are higher

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. so blake had a rough season every player does id like to know some of the players that are overpriced stiffs.


Blake has never been a sniper. He has ONE season over 30 goals and that was in a free-agent year. Tell you what, look at his career and you'll find that he's not worth those numbers and he's sure as sh*t not doing it this year.

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i want to know who you want gone so they can rebuild because if half of there players were gone there would be no Toronto especially if you took out sundin,kaberle,blake,tucker,McCabe


Easy, dump Kubina, Blake, Tucker and McCabe. The team needs to REBUILD because it's wasn't working 2 years ago, last year or this year. At what point do you retool for the future as educated Leaf fans keep clamoring for. This team needs to get younger, faster and cheaper (so they can nab good young free agents, no overpriced veterans) and unless you can demonstrate otherwise, this team will continue to wallow in mediocrity and playoff futility. Some of us fans get this


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:38 pm
 


Mustang1 wrote:
Sports_Master2008 wrote:
Id like to know how their defence sucks i really do


Simple, it's called over 200 GA and that's good enough for 4th worst in the NHL. I'd like to know how that makes it good in your eyes.


Quote:
and so what if they get turffed in the first round at least they made it there and they already have a decent future kids in the marlies


Because the goal is to win the Stanley Cup! What does getting your ass handed to IF you make the playoffs? No decent draft picks and the same crap for the following year. And the Marlies? Like who? Maybe Pogge, but who's demonstrated anything beyond simple average NHLer. And that's not good enough for a Stanley Cup. I guess as a fan, my expectations are higher

Quote:
. so blake had a rough season every player does id like to know some of the players that are overpriced stiffs.


Blake has never been a sniper. He has ONE season over 30 goals and that was in a free-agent year. Tell you what, look at his career and you'll find that he's not worth those numbers and he's sure as sh*t not doing it this year.

Quote:
i want to know who you want gone so they can rebuild because if half of there players were gone there would be no Toronto especially if you took out sundin,kaberle,blake,tucker,McCabe


Easy, dump Kubina, Blake, Tucker and McCabe. The team needs to REBUILD because it's wasn't working 2 years ago, last year or this year. At what point do you retool for the future as educated Leaf fans keep clamoring for. This team needs to get younger, faster and cheaper (so they can nab good young free agents, no overpriced veterans) and unless you can demonstrate otherwise, this team will continue to wallow in mediocrity and playoff futility. Some of us fans get this
just because they have had 200 goals scored on them dont mean there bad .the goalie couldve been haveing a bad game or there couldve beena bounce off someones leg you cant prevent thsi stuff.

yeah sure winning the stanley cup is nice but its not a goal its a fantasy its every teams dream your chances are horrible and even worse if you are a canadain team.and the marlies theres pogge,tlusty,earl and more

and sure blake may not be a sniper but he has great speed and he can set up and he is hard to knock off te puck its people with speed like him that make teams take penalties.

Yea just go dump them you know that makes everything better. tucker has ben banged up so he hasnt played his full potential and kubina is a good defender and he can create points andMcCabe believe it Toronto has a better record when playing with McCabe cause he can produce offence play the powerplay and he can carry the puck too.and what does it matterif you have the highest salary cap or th lowest as long as you team is playing good then you dont need to pick up free agents and Toronto has a team of speed sure you got guys like antropov ponikarovsky and sundin but there big so they make other teams take penalties and they create alot of offence because they can hole the zone


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:04 pm
 


Sports_Master2008 wrote:
just because they have had 200 goals scored on them dont mean there bad .the goalie couldve been haveing a bad game or there couldve beena bounce off someones leg you cant prevent thsi stuff.


You asked how their defense sucked and i provided objective data. You've responded with NOTHING to dispute that. In fact, blaming it on Toskala is idiotic as he's the reason they're even in half the games.

Quote:
yeah sure winning the stanley cup is nice but its not a goal its a fantasy its every teams dream your chances are horrible and even worse if you are a canadain team.and the marlies theres pogge,tlusty,earl and more


Winning the Stanley Cup is nice?!?!? It's not a goal?!?!? What kind of Leaf fan are you? This isn't a beer league! This is the NHL and the goal each and every year is the Stanley Cup! It's no wonder you don't care how this team does as you apparently enjoy watching mediocrity. And Tlusty hasn't done crap in the NHL and who's projecting him for stardom? Earl? Damn. You really can't admit you're wrong, can you? There's nothing coming down the pipe that screams stardom.

Quote:
and sure blake may not be a sniper but he has great speed and he can set up and he is hard to knock off te puck its people with speed like him that make teams take penalties.


You're paying for "great speed" in the salary cap era? At $20 Million?!?!? Did you work for JFJ too?

Quote:
Yea just go dump them you know that makes everything better. tucker has ben banged up so he hasnt played his full potential and kubina is a good defender and he can create points andMcCabe believe it Toronto has a better record when playing with McCabe cause he can produce offence play the powerplay and he can carry the puck too.and what does it matterif you have the highest salary cap or th lowest as long as you team is playing good then you dont need to pick up free agents and Toronto has a team of speed sure you got guys like antropov ponikarovsky and sundin but there big so they make other teams take penalties and they create alot of offence because they can hole the zone


Toronto has speed?!?!? Like who? Tucker is banged up because he's played that way his career and it's now taken its toll. He's useless for his salary. Kubina is a "good" defender for $5 million/season?!?!? You're kidding, right? He makes more than Bouwmeester, Karbele, Campbell and more than 3/4 of the League defensemen? And McCabe? He's worth more than Pronger (and McCabe's defense is utterly pathetic)? Seriously, i get than fan is short-form for fanatic, but this is delusional. This team isn't good and it's up against the cap, which means its not returning on its investment. It's an average team at best and it's going nowhere fast. Thank God, Fletcher and those with hockey smarts understand it because WE want a Stanley Cup not excuses, useless rationalizations and mediocrity. If that's what you want, fine, but I want a winner.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:43 pm
 


Mustang1 wrote:
Sports_Master2008 wrote:
just because they have had 200 goals scored on them dont mean there bad .the goalie couldve been haveing a bad game or there couldve beena bounce off someones leg you cant prevent thsi stuff.


You asked how their defense sucked and i provided objective data. You've responded with NOTHING to dispute that. In fact, blaming it on Toskala is idiotic as he's the reason they're even in half the games.

Quote:
yeah sure winning the stanley cup is nice but its not a goal its a fantasy its every teams dream your chances are horrible and even worse if you are a canadain team.and the marlies theres pogge,tlusty,earl and more


Winning the Stanley Cup is nice?!?!? It's not a goal?!?!? What kind of Leaf fan are you? This isn't a beer league! This is the NHL and the goal each and every year is the Stanley Cup! It's no wonder you don't care how this team does as you apparently enjoy watching mediocrity. And Tlusty hasn't done crap in the NHL and who's projecting him for stardom? Earl? Damn. You really can't admit you're wrong, can you? There's nothing coming down the pipe that screams stardom.

Quote:
and sure blake may not be a sniper but he has great speed and he can set up and he is hard to knock off te puck its people with speed like him that make teams take penalties.


You're paying for "great speed" in the salary cap era? At $20 Million?!?!? Did you work for JFJ too?

Quote:
Yea just go dump them you know that makes everything better. tucker has ben banged up so he hasnt played his full potential and kubina is a good defender and he can create points andMcCabe believe it Toronto has a better record when playing with McCabe cause he can produce offence play the powerplay and he can carry the puck too.and what does it matterif you have the highest salary cap or th lowest as long as you team is playing good then you dont need to pick up free agents and Toronto has a team of speed sure you got guys like antropov ponikarovsky and sundin but there big so they make other teams take penalties and they create alot of offence because they can hole the zone


Toronto has speed?!?!? Like who? Tucker is banged up because he's played that way his career and it's now taken its toll. He's useless for his salary. Kubina is a "good" defender for $5 million/season?!?!? You're kidding, right? He makes more than Bouwmeester, Karbele, Campbell and more than 3/4 of the League defensemen? And McCabe? He's worth more than Pronger (and McCabe's defense is utterly pathetic)? Seriously, i get than fan is short-form for fanatic, but this is delusional. This team isn't good and it's up against the cap, which means its not returning on its investment. It's an average team at best and it's going nowhere fast. Thank God, Fletcher and those with hockey smarts understand it because WE want a Stanley Cup not excuses, useless rationalizations and mediocrity. If that's what you want, fine, but I want a winner.
Yea well if you want a winner from Toronto you better take a hike because there goal is to make the playoffs right now. lets see blake, tlusty, earl,tucker,newberry, and for sundin's size he has decent speed.Yea and mcCabe is worth more then pronger he has been way better and is still a better defenceman then pronger. but yet still a chance o making the playoffs is goin nowhere kubina is also a veteran so of cousre he is goin to be paid more plus he also has a stanley cup ring unlike bouwmeester,kaberle,and campbell


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:43 pm
 


Tman1 wrote:
Sundin's been with the Leafs since day one. Instead of shitting your pants over revamping the team (good luck with that, it will take several years and Sundin will be gone way after that anyways) I consider it a good thing that a superstar considers Canada home when all too many so called "Canadians" are all too willing to move to the states and even no matter how much money they are paid, don't want to play in Canada anyways.

Hey, how about Lidstrom....Sakic....old foggies with the same team who have no intention of leaving yet, one person on Toronto is apparently the cancer of the team. Jeeeeesus. No wonder nobody wants to stay in Canada.

Forsberg? Out of any playoff contending team, he chooses Colorado who may or may not make the playoffs...fuck him eh?


You're shooting yourself in the foot when you're arguing Lidström, Sakic and Sundins sense of loyalty and then say fuck Forsberg (Rapid-mountains ;) ) becaus he's returning to the team he played for since he came to the NHL ('94 - '04)(Nordiques = Avalanche) and stayed with until they decided that he was obsolete.


Last edited by OPP on Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:48 pm
 


OPP wrote:
Tman1 wrote:
Sundin's been with the Leafs since day one. Instead of shitting your pants over revamping the team (good luck with that, it will take several years and Sundin will be gone way after that anyways) I consider it a good thing that a superstar considers Canada home when all too many so called "Canadians" are all too willing to move to the states and even no matter how much money they are paid, don't want to play in Canada anyways.

Hey, how about Lidstrom....Sakic....old foggies with the same team who have no intention of leaving yet, one person on Toronto is apparently the cancer of the team. Jeeeeesus. No wonder nobody wants to stay in Canada.

Forsberg? Out of any playoff contending team, he chooses Colorado who may or may not make the playoffs...fuck him eh?


You're shooting yourself in the foot when your arguing Lidström, Sakic and Sundins sense of loyalty and then say fuck Forsberg (Rapid-mountains ;) ) becaus he's returning to the team he played for since he came to the NHL ('95 - '04)(Nordiques = Avalanche) and stayed with until they decided that he was obsolete.
That was also Forsbergs choice and you need to respect that fact.Why would Sundin want to leave he dont believe in the term rental player and he has had great succes with the leafs Sundin also still has a few good years left in him


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:53 pm
 


Sports_Master2008 wrote:
OPP wrote:
Tman1 wrote:
Sundin's been with the Leafs since day one. Instead of shitting your pants over revamping the team (good luck with that, it will take several years and Sundin will be gone way after that anyways) I consider it a good thing that a superstar considers Canada home when all too many so called "Canadians" are all too willing to move to the states and even no matter how much money they are paid, don't want to play in Canada anyways.

Hey, how about Lidstrom....Sakic....old foggies with the same team who have no intention of leaving yet, one person on Toronto is apparently the cancer of the team. Jeeeeesus. No wonder nobody wants to stay in Canada.

Forsberg? Out of any playoff contending team, he chooses Colorado who may or may not make the playoffs...fuck him eh?


You're shooting yourself in the foot when your arguing Lidström, Sakic and Sundins sense of loyalty and then say fuck Forsberg (Rapid-mountains ;) ) becaus he's returning to the team he played for since he came to the NHL ('95 - '04)(Nordiques = Avalanche) and stayed with until they decided that he was obsolete.
That was also Forsbergs choice and you need to respect that fact.Why would Sundin want to leave he dont believe in the term rental player and he has had great succes with the leafs Sundin also still has a few good years left in him


Sundin wants to end his career in Toronto. He said himself that he does not want to win the cup with any other team and that he does not want to leave his teammates behind.
... Is it just me or does these words make sense?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:20 pm
 


Sports_Master2008 wrote:
Yea well if you want a winner from Toronto you better take a hike because there goal is to make the playoffs right now.


Tell ya' what, i'll take a hike when wannabe hockey fans get a clue. The goal each and every year should be the Stanley Cup. If not, start watching beer league hockey as this isn't level for you.

Quote:
lets see blake, tlusty, earl,tucker,newberry, and for sundin's size he has decent speed.


Won't matter. And I noticed you conveniently dodged the point about Blake's contract vs. his production. And for Tlusty, Earl and Newberry - nothing yet and no one is banking on these guys.

Quote:
Yea and mcCabe is worth more then pronger he has been way better and is still a better defenceman then pronger.


McCabe is better than Chris Pronger?!?!?!?!? ROTFL ROTFL ROTFL Seriously, this is one of the most asinine comments i've had the displeasure of reading in a long time. Pronger has a MVP, Norris, Stanley Cup and Olympic Gold and is considered one of the best defenesmen in the NHL. He's a proven commodity and he's consistently a winner with a career +/- of 126. At this point, you've hit the wall if this is the kind of nonsense you're peddling.

Quote:
but yet still a chance o making the playoffs is goin nowhere kubina is also a veteran so of cousre he is goin to be paid more plus he also has a stanley cup ring unlike bouwmeester,kaberle,and campbell
ROTFL

Huh? Salary isn't based on experience, it's based on PERFORMANCE! Are you kidding me? You think he's worth more than Karbele because he's older (even thought Kaberle has played more games)? That's idiotic. Seriously, this has plummeted into a waste of time. It's clear you simply can't grasp the complexities of the matter and when someone starts writing that McCabe is better than Chris Pronger and repeating the same subjective nonsense over and over again than they've reached the end of the tether. Sorry.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:22 pm
 


Mustang1 wrote:
Please don't tell me you're pinning this on Blake, a 38- year old Sundin, Tucker, McCabe, wonky Colaiacovo, Kubina? I hope half those overpriced stiffs are gone by next year and then this team can really retool for a run in a couple of years, but NOT without decent drafting!


You believe Sundin to be overpriced?


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