[andyt]

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/basic+living+income+could+wipe+poverty/2222557/story.html

all residents in a small Manitoba community were guaranteed a minimum annual income

Quote:

for five years in the mid-1970s.

So far, researcher Evelyn Forget has discovered that from 1974 through 1978, the residents of Dauphin were less likely to draw on the medical system than a control group elsewhere in the province. Dauphin's young people also stayed in high school longer. Within years of the experiment shutting down, those trend lines disappeared, Forget says.

[Brenda]

Give me 4 grand to live off each month, and you won't hear me bitch.

[andyt]

Brenda wrote:

Give me 4 grand to live off each month, and you won't hear me bitch.

Well if you have 2 or three kids, it's not that much.

Obviously we couldn't afford this. But it shows that if low income earners were earning more, there would be a savings to govt expenditures in health care, as well as creating higher functioning adults (kids who stay in school) who cost the system less and pay more into it in taxes.

I don't believe in minimum income for no effort - you gotta work for your money. But we would actually save a lot of govt money if the lowest income people were earning a living wage. Medical care, justice system, welfare and other social supports, etc would all save mucho dinero. And as I said, people who earn more pay more in taxes - so the tax rate could be reduced - it's a neocon wet dream.

[Strutz]

It would be interesting to see this experiment tried again now.

[andyt]

Strutz wrote:

It would be interesting to see this experiment tried again now.

I'm sure the effect would be the same, but we can't afford it. Why not try an experiment where people have to work but their wages are boosted to a living wage? Even that tho seems a little unfair to only do to one small group of people - why should they get all that govt cash.

But govts could raise the minimum wage and reduce taxes and fees for low income earners. As for the people on welfare, I don't really know what to do - I don't believe in just handing out free money.

[bootlegga]

I'll take $4000-5000 per month...sign me up for the newer, up-to-date study!

[BartSimpson]

Strutz wrote:

It would be interesting to see this experiment tried again now.

It was. In Cuba. And the USSR. And China. And etc. and it didn't work in any of those places.

It's a nice idea, but the problem is that it is Utopian and while it works for a short time, it is not a sustainable economic model.

[andyt]

Total crap. The experiment has been run in the Scandinavian countries with great success. Sweden shares top spot with Switzerland as the most competitive economy, and Denmark and Norway are doing well too.

[martin14]

got a link ?

[Brenda]

andyt wrote:

Brenda wrote:

Give me 4 grand to live off each month, and you won't hear me bitch.

Well if you have 2 or three kids, it's not that much.

I have 2 kids and I am doing with less now.

[andyt]

Brenda wrote:

andyt wrote:

Brenda wrote:

Give me 4 grand to live off each month, and you won't hear me bitch.

Well if you have 2 or three kids, it's not that much.

I have 2 kids and I am doing with less now.

You mean between you and your husband you make less than 4k. Then I guess that program is for you.

[BartSimpson]

andyt wrote:

Total crap. The experiment has been run in the Scandinavian countries with great success. Sweden shares top spot with Switzerland as the most competitive economy, and Denmark and Norway are doing well too.

Andy, you just can't do this for any length of time.

I've long told minimum wage activists to demand $100 per hour because then that will wipe out poverty...right?

No. It will cause inflation that will wipe out whatever temporary gain is obtained by raising the minimum to $100 per hour.

Likewise, guaranteeing any population of people a guaranteed amount of money per month will be inflationary and unsustainable over the long run.

[andyt]

martin14 wrote:

got a link ?

A link to what - that Scandinavian countries have much great income equality, much stronger social safety net and much less social problems than we do? Just watch the news, I thought this would be common knowledge by now.

Or we can compare us vs US - same deal. Less crime, better health outcomes, better education. Just that us vs Scandinavian countries we don't look so good.

[andyt]

BartSimpson wrote:

andyt wrote:

Total crap. The experiment has been run in the Scandinavian countries with great success. Sweden shares top spot with Switzerland as the most competitive economy, and Denmark and Norway are doing well too.

Andy, you just can't do this for any length of time.

I've long told minimum wage activists to demand $100 per hour because then that will wipe out poverty...right?

No. It will cause inflation that will wipe out whatever temporary gain is obtained by raising the minimum to $100 per hour.

Likewise, guaranteeing any population of people a guaranteed amount of money per month will be inflationary and unsustainable over the long run.

Funny, you guys also had much closer income equality in the 60's and yet were doing better than things look for you right now. Having an elite that sucks up all the money doesn't seem to be working so well for you guys.

You want reductio adsurdum - lets reverse it. Push wages down even further for the working poor, raise incomes for the top - do you think that's sustainable for the long run?

[BartSimpson]

andyt wrote:

that Scandinavian countries have... much less social problems than we do?

Really?

Sweden is #1 in the world for unwed mothers with 55% of live births being to unwed mothers.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/WomensHeal ... 268&page=1

Sweden is #1 in Europe for anti-semitism.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... rimes.html

Sweden's unemployment is at 9.8%
http://www.swedishwire.com/economy/4697 ... umps-to-98

Alcoholism in Swedish women has gone up 50% in just four years
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -50pc.html

In every single one of these categories Canada is far better off than the Lion of Scandinavia.