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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:07 am
 


DrCaleb wrote:
Actual crime figures from States where they adopted 'conceal/carry' laws disagree with you. Violent crimes decrease. In states where guns are banned, violent crime increases dramatically.



And yet Vermont is supposed to have the lowest gun crime rate in the US. Funny how it's still substantially higher than the gun crime rate in Canada on a per capita basis. Yep, that's real progress :roll:


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:21 am
 


'Hug-a-thug' crowd should read stats
By LORRIE GOLDSTEIN

Last Updated: 22nd October 2009, 4:46am

With the federal Conservatives trying to take some baby steps to toughen Canada's soft-as-butter criminal justice system, the "hug-a-thug" crowd has been in full rant of late.

After all, as we're lectured, ad nauseam, tougher laws would be mere pandering to the public because "the crime rate is going down."

Today, let's examine this claim about the crime rate.

The violent crime rate in Canada today (meaning 2008, the latest available figures) is 321% above what it was in 1962, when comparable figures first started being recorded by Statistics Canada.

Yes, you read that right.

In 1962, there were 221 violent crimes reported to police per 100,000 population. Today the comparable figure is 932 per 100,000, more than a tripling in under 50 years.

For property crime, the rate is 62% higher (3,079 crimes per 100,000 population in 2008, compared to 1,891 in 1962).

The overall crime rate is 137% higher (6,589 crimes per 100,000 population last year compared to 2,771 in 1962).

The reason you keep hearing crime is "down" (along with a newer measurement called "crime severity") is that in the early 1990s, crime rates started dropping all over North America for reasons no one is sure of, although everything from an aging population to more liberal abortion laws (hence, fewer "unwanted" children) have been offered as theories.

However, what we know unequivocally, especially for violent crime, is that these rates have never returned to the much lower ones of the early 1960s.

Back before then Liberal solicitor-general Jean-Pierre Goyer, complaining about the high cost of keeping criminals in prison, advised Parliament in 1971 that: "The present situation results from the fact that (the) protection of society has received more emphasis than the rehabilitation of inmates. Consequently, we have decided from now on to stress the rehabilitation of offenders, rather than the protection of society."

Yes, you read that right. This became the prevailing philosophy of subsequent Liberal and Progressive Conservative governments for decades, to the chagrin of crime victims.

Crime rate

Next, since the official crime rate is based on incidents reported to police, does the reported crime reflect the actual crime rate?

The answer is no. The real crime rate is much higher.

Every five years, Statistics Canada conducts the General Social Survey. It asks a representative sample of Canadians, among other things, whether they have been crime victims.

From the last survey in 2004 (the next one is being conducted now, with the findings to be released next year) Statistics Canada reached the following conclusions.

First, progressively fewer Canadians who are crime victims are reporting the crime to police -- only 34% in 2004, compared to 37% in 1999.

Second, based on the GSS, an estimated 92% of sexual assaults were never reported to police, 46% of break-ins, 51% of motor vehicle/parts thefts, 61% of physical assaults and 54% of robberies.

Yes, you read that right.

The reported crime rate also excludes federal drug offences -- odd, given the huge role drugs play in violent crime -- and Criminal Code traffic offences.

Historically, when a crime involved multiple offences, only the most serious was recorded in the crime rate and, if, say, a street gang assaults you on your way home, that counts as one crime, although there were multiple assailants.

Small wonder the crime rate is going "down," eh?

lorrie.goldstein@sunmedia.ca

http://www.torontosun.com/comment/co...85421-sun.html


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:50 pm
 


uwish wrote:
meee223 wrote:
I'm 57 years old and not only have I never held a gun, I've never even seen one (in person).



so? sounds to me like you should visit your local gun club and / or shooting range. Someone will take pity on you and show you the ways of the firearm...


Naw, I think it would be better if more people could say what I just did. Anyway, hope I can say the same for the rest of my life.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:26 pm
 


uwish wrote:
'Hug-a-thug' crowd should read stats
By LORRIE GOLDSTEIN

Last Updated: 22nd October 2009, 4:46am

With the federal Conservatives trying to take some baby steps to toughen Canada's soft-as-butter criminal justice system, the "hug-a-thug" crowd has been in full rant of late.

After all, as we're lectured, ad nauseam, tougher laws would be mere pandering to the public because "the crime rate is going down."

Today, let's examine this claim about the crime rate.

The violent crime rate in Canada today (meaning 2008, the latest available figures) is 321% above what it was in 1962, when comparable figures first started being recorded by Statistics Canada.

Yes, you read that right.

In 1962, there were 221 violent crimes reported to police per 100,000 population. Today the comparable figure is 932 per 100,000, more than a tripling in under 50 years.

For property crime, the rate is 62% higher (3,079 crimes per 100,000 population in 2008, compared to 1,891 in 1962).

The overall crime rate is 137% higher (6,589 crimes per 100,000 population last year compared to 2,771 in 1962).

The reason you keep hearing crime is "down" (along with a newer measurement called "crime severity") is that in the early 1990s, crime rates started dropping all over North America for reasons no one is sure of, although everything from an aging population to more liberal abortion laws (hence, fewer "unwanted" children) have been offered as theories.

However, what we know unequivocally, especially for violent crime, is that these rates have never returned to the much lower ones of the early 1960s.

Back before then Liberal solicitor-general Jean-Pierre Goyer, complaining about the high cost of keeping criminals in prison, advised Parliament in 1971 that: "The present situation results from the fact that (the) protection of society has received more emphasis than the rehabilitation of inmates. Consequently, we have decided from now on to stress the rehabilitation of offenders, rather than the protection of society."

Yes, you read that right. This became the prevailing philosophy of subsequent Liberal and Progressive Conservative governments for decades, to the chagrin of crime victims.

Crime rate

Next, since the official crime rate is based on incidents reported to police, does the reported crime reflect the actual crime rate?

The answer is no. The real crime rate is much higher.

Every five years, Statistics Canada conducts the General Social Survey. It asks a representative sample of Canadians, among other things, whether they have been crime victims.

From the last survey in 2004 (the next one is being conducted now, with the findings to be released next year) Statistics Canada reached the following conclusions.

First, progressively fewer Canadians who are crime victims are reporting the crime to police -- only 34% in 2004, compared to 37% in 1999.

Second, based on the GSS, an estimated 92% of sexual assaults were never reported to police, 46% of break-ins, 51% of motor vehicle/parts thefts, 61% of physical assaults and 54% of robberies.

Yes, you read that right.

The reported crime rate also excludes federal drug offences -- odd, given the huge role drugs play in violent crime -- and Criminal Code traffic offences.

Historically, when a crime involved multiple offences, only the most serious was recorded in the crime rate and, if, say, a street gang assaults you on your way home, that counts as one crime, although there were multiple assailants.

Small wonder the crime rate is going "down," eh?

lorrie.goldstein@sunmedia.ca

http://www.torontosun.com/comment/co...85421-sun.html



Ha yes, could the article be described as a smoking gun.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:30 pm
 


meee223 wrote:


Naw, I think it would be better if more people could say what I just did. Anyway, hope I can say the same for the rest of my life.



Why is it better?

Iv'e been shooting skeet, trap, target etc for 30 something years. It's lotsa fun.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:49 pm
 


I think I'm a rarity when it comes to firearms. I have no issue with people owning rifles and/or shotguns. I've even owned a few in my life. Rifles/shotguns altho originally designed for killing people, can also be a tool. Farmers need them for varmint control or even culling sick animals. Ok, they don't need them, but like any other tool, it makes the job easier and more efficient. Nor do I have issues with hunting. As long as it's not just sport hunting. Rifles/shotguns make the job of getting food a whole lot easier. Altho bow hunting IS a viable option. Well not for fowl lol.
It's handguns that are troubling to me. Handguns have one specific purpose, and only one. To kill people with. With the added benefit of being easily concealable.
Same with fully automatic weapons minus the concealability.

What really needs done is a cleaning up of current gun laws. There is a lot of confusion about legality. Call 3 different police depts or agencies about a questionably legal weapon and you'd likely get 3 different answers.

Another issue is minor changes to a stock model firearm. There's a Mossberg firearm (I can't remember the model) that is perfectly legal to own. A minor magazine and stock modification makes the same model a restricted weapon. A further stock modification makes the same model a banned weapon. Nothing about the firepower or rate of fire has been altered and all mods are available FROM Mossberg, so they are not homejob mods.
I will also go so far as to say that the City of Toronto's crackdown on legal gun owners was rather short cited. However, for those whose licences or insurance had expired or whose storage wasn't up to snuff..tough shit. For those that were up to snuff and were current in their paperwork, they have a reason to be pissed about having their firearms removed.


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