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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:23 pm
 


here is a question: how is recycling paper, plastic, and metal a bad thing? even if the trees are growing faster than we can chop them down, isn't this a good thing? (ie. global warming?) what about plastics? recycle plastics and then we have more oil for fuel, and oil does not grow back, even if our techniques are getting better, soon will be the day when there simply is no oil left. as for glass i dunno. if you can recycle it sure; means less garbage going to landfills.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:38 pm
 


Here in Pei...it doesn't matter what you think about it...the island is 100% recycling now and if you don't sort they wont pick it up...simple as that...and if it isn't sorted correctly they just leave it to and pin a nice little note to it


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:51 pm
 


Zipperfish wrote:
Well a denial that the total amount of oil on the planet is decreasing may be comforting, but it isn't going to help in the final analysis. Sure they "find" new oil wells all the time, but not oil is created equal. The tar sands, for instacne, requires a lot of energy to recover. What happens when it costs a barrel full of oil's worth of energy to recover a barrel full of oil. (This is why some are proposing nuclear plants in the tar sands). It's that pesky thermodynamic limit again.


Well the US DOI predicted they'd run out of oil within 15 years at least three times in the 1900s. The tar sands wouldn't have even been possible a few decades ago, but we've developed more efficient and innovative methods of extraction. If you want to look at a limit states analysis of the environment, we've got more problems to worry about before we could actually manage to consume all the oil we can recover.

Zipperfish wrote:
Again, I'll say that recycling should only be used when a proper assessment has been conducted to assess its efficacy. And again the paper linked herein is not such a study. I'd like to see, for example, an analysis of energy costs to recycle paper versus energy costs to chop down a new tree and convert it to paper. This analysis should account for externalities, such as the abaility of the tree to sequester carbon, to stabilize soil and to turn carbon dioxide into oxygen -- things which are not currently accounted for in many assessments.


Well, there are such studies cited in the report, as I've said over and over, but not likely those which include the other benefits you've mentioned (CO2, erosion control, etc). However, if the majority of paper from virgin pulp is from plantations specifically for this purpose, they aren't going to last very long if you switch to recycling - that private land is going to be used for something profitable.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:56 pm
 


Avro wrote:
Oh boy, so what you are saying is let's not worry about resourses and where to put our garbage until it becomes an issue which it already is in Toronto.


There's more landfill capacity now than there ever was, so there's no problem as far as finding somewhere to put it. It's an issue in Toronto because it's a major, concentrated centre, but that doesn't mean they can't transport it, just like goods and services come and go in every other industry.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:57 pm
 


Canadian_Mind wrote:
here is a question: how is recycling paper, plastic, and metal a bad thing? even if the trees are growing faster than we can chop them down, isn't this a good thing? (ie. global warming?) what about plastics? recycle plastics and then we have more oil for fuel, and oil does not grow back, even if our techniques are getting better, soon will be the day when there simply is no oil left. as for glass i dunno. if you can recycle it sure; means less garbage going to landfills.


You might start off by reading the article, and the full report.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:01 pm
 


fatbasturd wrote:
Here in Pei...it doesn't matter what you think about it...the island is 100% recycling now and if you don't sort they wont pick it up...simple as that...and if it isn't sorted correctly they just leave it to and pin a nice little note to it


Yeah, but you don't even have aluminum cans... :?


(Just kidding)

It's the same here... very specific rules on how to sort, what kind of bag you can put them in... with something as disorganized as household waste, it's not made any easier by the system in place.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:42 pm
 


Blue_Nose wrote:
Yeah, but you don't even have aluminum cans... :?
Thats to keep the tourists from throwing them away on the beaches....We get roughly 1.2 million tourists in eight weeks...in a province of 125 thousand residents.That only takes three hours to drive the length of, and thirty mins to drive the width.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:04 pm
 


fatbasturd wrote:
Blue_Nose wrote:
Yeah, but you don't even have aluminum cans... :?
Thats to keep the tourists from throwing them away on the beaches....We get roughly 1.2 million tourists in eight weeks...in a province of 125 thousand residents.That only takes three hours to drive the length of, and thirty mins to drive the width.


Oh believe me, I know exactly how long it takes to drive across.... spent two summers doing winter wheat research over there... hard labour is that much harder when everyone around you is on vacation :|


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:52 pm
 


Avro wrote:
Okay, I vote for your backyard then.


It was my backyard, so to speak, for years. I lived about a kilometer away from one as a kid, and other than a faint smell of smoke once in a blue moon, it was no problem at all. Now it's a big green field... I even did a science fair project and tested the water all around it for any toxins, and didn't find squat.

That was much more of a response than your self-righteous remark deserved, but hey, I'm a generous guy.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:45 pm
 


Quote:
here is a question: how is recycling paper, plastic, and metal a bad thing? even if the trees are growing faster than we can chop them down, isn't this a good thing? (ie. global warming?) what about plastics? recycle plastics and then we have more oil for fuel, and oil does not grow back, even if our techniques are getting better, soon will be the day when there simply is no oil left.


First off recycling does not reduce greenhouse gasses if takes more energy to throw something away and manufacture a new one, and recycling is subject to the law of diminishing responce. Secondly, plastic isn’t made from fuel. Oil must be refined and in the refinery process, plastic is made from one of the bi-products. It can also be made from plants such as soy or corn.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:48 pm
 


You know, Avro, it's okay to have a civilized conversation every once in a while.

You obviously didn't read the article or the report, because you're ranting like a baby who didn't get his cookie. This matter doesn't reflect on any of the things you mentioned - way to put the jerk in knee jerk.

I'm the guy who recycles everything because I think/thought it was helping the environment. I'm looking for the best solution, and just because you think the world would end if I don't join the herd doesn't concern me.

Baaaa, baaa, Avro.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:54 pm
 


How about we just ship all our waste to some country who's leaders don't give a toss for their people!!....??....Mexico!! or..... we can just dump it into the ocean like they do in the Caribbean!! There's plenty of narrow minded methods of disposing our shit cheaply! Why recycle!!? It costs too much!! Hell the Jamaicans were so ingeniuos that they once had a garbage dump nurishing a whole communty of people, so many people in fact it bacame a small city!! Now that's adaptation!!


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