[dgthe3]

I get the point. SUV's are one example of the extreme wastefulness of the American economy, Nike is one example of their exploitation of others, and America itself is an example of western culture. In order to have any sort of future, we in the west need to re-evaluate how we live our lifes. 5 big box stores surrounding a huge parking lot is not the way to a build shopping centre. Suburbs are horribly in-efficient use of vehicles and therefore fuel. The modern American way of life is based on cheap fossil fuels. This may be good for them in the short term, but in the long run when oil prices are 10, 20, or 30 times what they are now, America will be screwed and the rest of us won't be much better off.

And as far as the sweatshops and child labour are concerned, someone brought up a good point that some familys need that income, but at the same time by having those children working, thye cannot go to school to get an education which could potentially provide a better job. However, not everyone in the world can be a 'thinker', many more need to be 'makers', it takes more people to build a supply of clothing or toys or cars than it takes to design them..

[ManifestDestiny]

I have a Dodge Ram 2500 with the Cummins turbo diesel. The fuel milage is horrible. but when i press the gas wow! I am not gonna sit here and feel bad for thigs that I want. I own my own bussiness and no one helped me to get it started. I worked hard and made something of my self. I think it is egocentric to think we can destroy the world for good. It has been around for a billion years. Humans have been around for about 10,000 to 30,000. depending of who you beleive.

[dgthe3]

Nobody has ever said that we will destroy the world and been taken seriuosly. The problem isn't that we will kill all life on earth either. Just that we may end up destroying ecosystems like the rainforest and coral reefs. Many say who cares, others say save the cute little critters. I say that the unknow species in the rainforest that we just exterminated may have held the cure for cancer in its genome. We forget that most drug we manufacture and use today are based on traditional, naturally produced drugs. It is just cheaper to make them than harvest them.

You say that no-one helped you start and build your business? Actually, your government helped out a lot, as did the education system, and the market (which does need some sort of outside help). It may have been you money that you used and your labour, but without those other things already in place, you would never have been successful. BTW, what is your business, what does it do? Or is it none of my business

[Dayseed]

One note,

The argument that grain used for feeding cattle can instead be given to humans and/or that land used to grow food is poorly researched.

The first thing is, the human stomach cannot digest the coarse grains that the four stomachs of ruminates can. So fine, take away all of the rock-like grain from the cows, give it to people and watch them still starve. They can't eat it so let them eat cake huh there Marie Antionette? Farmers also don't always have a choice as to what they can grow on their land due to access to table-water, soil composition, temperature and weather. Perhaps you've noticed the lack of orange trees in the Sahara or coconut trees on Antarctica. It's not due to choice.

If you're going to preach responsibility for others, take some responsibility in factually checking your posts first.

Lastly, I guess you don't mind using the electricity generated from burning coal or a nuclear power plant to fire up your computer and smear your theory all over the internet. When you're living on a kollective, eating what you grow and wearing what you kill, walking to and fro with your spear, you can feel free to comment on how I should go to hell for not feeling guilty about driving to get a hamburger.

[BartSimpson]

Dayseed Dayseed:

One note,

The argument that grain used for feeding cattle can instead be given to humans and/or that land used to grow food is poorly researched.

The first thing is, the human stomach cannot digest the coarse grains that the four stomachs of ruminates can. So fine, take away all of the rock-like grain from the cows, give it to people and watch them still starve. They can't eat it so let them eat cake huh there Marie Antionette? Farmers also don't always have a choice as to what they can grow on their land due to access to table-water, soil composition, temperature and weather. Perhaps you've noticed the lack of orange trees in the Sahara or coconut trees on Antarctica. It's not due to choice.

If you're going to preach responsibility for others, take some responsibility in factually checking your posts first.

Lastly, I guess you don't mind using the electricity generated from burning coal or a nuclear power plant to fire up your computer and smear your theory all over the internet. When you're living on a kollective, eating what you grow and wearing what you kill, walking to and fro with your spear, you can feel free to comment on how I should go to hell for not feeling guilty about driving to get a hamburger.

You're my hero!!!

[WarHawkster]

I'm getting a humvee just to spite you all.

[Dan74]

WarHawkster WarHawkster:

I'm getting a humvee just to spite you all.

blahahhahahahaahahha
get the ones with a .50 cal on the top.That will piss off the lefty crowd.

[dgthe3]

Hummers are great, and if you do get one WarHawkster, please take it off-road though and don't wash it unless absolutely needed. Otherwise, it's like getting a Vette or something and keeping it below 100 km/h!

[Dayseed]

Peter Finn,

Thank you.

Dgthe3,

I suppose you just park the Corvette at 100 km/h? Zip through the drive-thru at a mean 115?

And America itself is an example of western culture?!? America IS western culture! When was the last time you tuned in a Polish Polka on the radio or watched a pitted match of jai alai? Hell, when was the last time anybody here even encountered jai alai that wasn't in relation to a crossword clue?

[canadian1971]

$1:

Hummers are great

Dam straight!!! Who doesn't love a good Hummer!!!!

oh wait.....were you talking about the truck?

LMFAO....I want to put a certain "emotion" in here but will refrain...I'm sure you know which one though!

[ManifestDestiny]

dgthe3 dgthe3:

Nobody has ever said that we will destroy the world and been taken seriuosly. The problem isn't that we will kill all life on earth either. Just that we may end up destroying ecosystems like the rainforest and coral reefs. Many say who cares, others say save the cute little critters. I say that the unknow species in the rainforest that we just exterminated may have held the cure for cancer in its genome. We forget that most drug we manufacture and use today are based on traditional, naturally produced drugs. It is just cheaper to make them than harvest them.

You say that no-one helped you start and build your business? Actually, your government helped out a lot, as did the education system, and the market (which does need some sort of outside help). It may have been you money that you used and your labour, but without those other things already in place, you would never have been successful. BTW, what is your business, what does it do? Or is it none of my business

I own a Import Buss. I Import Italian foods to the US and Canada.

[dgthe3]

Dayseed:
You missed my point. If you want to say that America is western culture, you will get no argument from me. What i was trying to get accross was that the rest of us in the in the western world, including Canada, UK, France, Germany, etc, all do similar things as what the US is doing in regards to wastefulness, exploitation and consumption. Europe is better than we are over here but i think you get the idea. Perhaps western society or business practices would have been better, but the problem is a cultural one that is not common in the rest of world. sorry about the miscommunication.

And about the Corvette's, again poor communication on my part. How about "Always keeping them under 100" would have been better. If i didn't have to type out what i want to say, things would be better. Never have been that good with the written word.

NYC:
Thanks

Canadian:
Yes I am talking about the truck and was it this one that you were thinking about? (no need to reply)

[Mustang1]

Gweedo,

Wait a second – “I should think for myself”? Why, because you say so? Please. Remember, I was merely commenting on some sections of your rather derivative, unoriginal diatribe, and you responded with the mudslinging. Oh well, if that’s your strategy then I’ll humour you.

$1:

This is not a debate on SUVs or Meat Consumption, its a debate on people taking RESPONSIBILITY for their actions no matter how far disconnected they are.

Sure it is. You included it as an illustration of your supposition. All I did was point out the fact that SUVs are hardly “evil” nor are their costumers guilty of “Cold Evil”. In fact, you didn’t get my salient point as I demonstrated the inherent flaws with using SUVs as the scapegoats for globalization or ecological morality. Remember, you said most people don’t know this (that’s hyperbole) and I suggested that you apparently don’t know much about the complexities of automotive market segments. You employed an oversimplified example and in the process committed an argumentative fallacy. Don’t shot the messenger.

$1:

You can try to make yourself feel better all you want by telling me Minivans are worse than SUVs (which is such a lie) but it still doesnt speak to the point of this post.

Uhh…tell you what, I’ll give this opportunity to either retract that erroneous statement or modify its utter lack of product comprehension. Either way, you’re wrong. I’ll give you a hint: the best selling “truck” in Canada was the Dodge Caravan (for March). Now compare that (in gas mileage) to the Toyota Rav 4 or the Ford Escape Hybrid. Go ahead. Now demonstrate how I was guilty of “telling a lie”. I’ll wait while you fumble with a response.

Lastly, I noticed how you conveniently left out my musings regarding sweetshop responsibility in terms of consumer purchases. I wonder why? Hmm…perhaps one’s self-righteous pontificating encountered an example of their own hypocrisy. Perhaps you should evaluate your own spending habits before chastising others?

[Snow]

Just have to ask one thing gweedo. Have u donated any money to helping starving children of 3rd world countries. I know i haven't. The only problem is, is that african countries have to go through revolutions of sorts, we had the industrial revolution and others that have brought us where we are today. We can't just give them what we use and say "here is a computer use it." They have to find their own way in the dark before things get better or else we just waist our time. Sure we can help out a bit, but beyond that that's all we can really do.

[WpgGweedo]

.