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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2003 3:01 pm
 


Im sitting here watching the news, and wondering now if our Great leader PM Chretien was right by not getting us on the band wagon will all the others in the so called coalition.
Now here is my train of thought on this. Over the last few days the US has given Russia shit for sending equipment to Bagdad, They have had trouble with the Turks too. With turkish troops crossing over into Iraq.. And were telling THEM whats what.. Now they are on Syrias case too now. WHOA CHARLIE ! ! Who's next? They been giving us (CANADA) grief too over our not being supportive enough towards them. Wait a cotton pickin minute there people....? WTF is going on now?? I may just have too much time on my hands here stting at home and following the war on the CBC, BBC, CNN, CTV, etc... but im getting a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach that the REAL shit hasnt even started yet.. Does any one else also feel that way???
Whos to say the Syrians dont jump in on Iraqs side?? I may have a vivid imagination, but what I see here is all the makings of a major, MAJOR fuck up over there....


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2003 3:10 pm
 


Certainly something to think about RH....

Syria jumping in, Russia possibly???...

Perhaps this war could turn uglier than it already is


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2003 3:53 pm
 


Muchhas been said , and is being said about winning the hearts and minds . Bringing democracy to the middle east and getting rid of repressive regimes . Perhaps the most disturbing bit of news I saw today was of arabs protesting the war on the side of Iraq , and against countries that support ( or don't speak out against the war ) . Now the problem with this is , these protests are being done by the people AGAINST their own governments in countries that supposedly have repressive regimes .

It also think that it is quite possible that at least some of the Iraqis resisting hate being invaded MORE than they hate Saddam 's rule . I've known people here in the states that wished Clinton would have been assasinated ( really ) , but I'm sure they would have fought to the death if the U.S. would have been invaded . And no , I'm not suggesting that one could compare Clinton to Saddam . The point is , some of Iraqis will welcome U.S. and British forces , some will fight against them against their will , and some will fight for their country REGARDLESS of what they think of Saddam . Us westerners have to remember that people in other parts of the world don't always think or view things quite the same way we do , and history has given us plenty of examples of that .

If we truly wanted to win the hearts and minds of the arab people , I still believe there is a better way of going about it as I posted on another topic elsewhere on this site . Unfortunately the battle is joined , and soon overwhelming force will have to be brought to bear to force the Iraqis to surrender . I fear many of our soldiers , and many Iraqis will die before this is over - we are all familar with the momentum of war once it has started . Monumental damage control will have to be done after this is done in order to make good what has been unleashed . Unfortunately , no matter what happens , suffering and death for innocents is virtually guaranteed for the foreseeble future .


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2003 3:56 pm
 


It could definitely happen. Given some of the US's recent (since 2000 or so) actions and their new-found belligerence, I've actually been wondering if the UN isn't going to have to step in and place sanctions on them.

Even Tony Blair seems to disagreeing with Bush, albeit in the most meek way possible.

Here's a question. If things go really bad, will the world be able to unite to oppose the US the way we did against Germany, Japan, and Italy? Would such a coaltion be effective if it did happen?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2003 4:00 pm
 


Rev_Blair wrote:
It could definitely happen. Given some of the US's recent (since 2000 or so) actions and their new-found belligerence, I've actually been wondering if the UN isn't going to have to step in and place sanctions on them.

Even Tony Blair seems to disagreeing with Bush, albeit in the most meek way possible.

Here's a question. If things go really bad, will the world be able to unite to oppose the US the way we did against Germany, Japan, and Italy? Would such a coaltion be effective if it did happen?

If it ever came to that Rev, we'ed be fooked.........


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2003 5:54 pm
 


Since 9/11 our entire world has been forced to awaken to a nightmare. I truly fear for the future. We have enetered the most dangerous period in human history to date. The world will ether collapse into chaos or be transformed into something better. These are troubling times...


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2003 10:23 pm
 


I think in a way Cretin made the right decision, probably the first I'd say.

Why back the U.S.? They've been screwing Canada on the Softwood lumber, wheat exports, and steel exports. Freetrade????? What a crock! I feel like digging out my "Freetrade T-shirt" the one with the eagle and the beaver right now! lol.
Here in BC 1000's of mill workers are out of work, that's the thanks we get for taking in all their international flights on 9/11, sending help to NY, and sending our troops to Afghanistan to fight their war? Then Bush acknowledges every country in the world that helped them, except Canada. I don't even want to start in about the "friendly Fire" issue.

Then the US ambassador threatens Canada with more "economic terrorism". Not to mention the threats of reprisal to other countries that oppose their "New World Order" agenda.

Push your friends around too much, you won't have any.

This war in Iraq could blossom into a conundrum of sorts. Dragging the whole Middle-East into conflict. The Turkey/Kurd situation . Syria, Iran. Not to mention North Korea could start something as well. This path will also lead to more terrorism stateside.

The US should be careful, they could manifest into the "tyrannical oppression" they so despise.

Yes Saddam should go. He's a badguy. Now is the US gonna oust all "non-democracies", or just the ones with all the oil. Who's next and when does it stop?

Another point, why does the US keep "inventing" these bad guys. Noriega, Usama Bin Laden, Saddam? All trained and funded by CIA in the past.

Noriega went to "The School of the Americas" in Fort Benning Georgia. That's another can of worms.

Usama Bin Laden during the war between Afghanistan/USSR. CIA worked with him, trained the mujahideen in guerrilla warfare/assinations. So did the Brits. Help establish trade routes and for the export of opium. Bought Russain arms off of an Egyptian gun dealer gave them to the mujahideen.

The CIA help put Saddam into power.

Anyways, I'll stop ranting now. lol :oops:





PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2003 11:52 pm
 


polemarch1 wrote:
Since 9/11 our entire world has been forced to awaken to a nightmare. I truly fear for the future. We have enetered the most dangerous period in human history to date. The world will ether collapse into chaos or be transformed into something better. These are troubling times...


i hear ya man, im considerin taking archery, cooking and the like in college, it'd be much more useful than computer engineering in a post nuclear world :? . ill def be moving back to canada once i finish college, maybe hang out up north like yellowknife or something, def safer than new york (where im at now). scary shit is going once you think about it.





PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:57 pm
 


RH,
Think you make several good points. Remember how some people argued with you when you said you were ashamed of your citizenship because of Chretien's reluctance to back the US? I'm glad that perhaps that feeling is in retreat.

This is fast becomming a huge mess. And to hear the administration... it's sickening. All of it is just disgusting. The US is not a friend to Canada. It isn't a friend to Australia or New Zealand. And it's no fan of the limies, either. The US is only a friend to itself. I live here, and I've seen this evolving over time--especially since 11 September. It's on it's own. If you want to drop by the party, that's fine...pull up a chair and send out your troops. Otherwise, go to hell. The "Ambassadors" to Canada and Australia are jokes brought to life, except they don't really have a punchline. The "free trade" issues are shameful. The US is no friend to anyone anymore. It's looking out for number one. DON'T forget that. I'm glad that the PM hasn't, for all his faults, he seems to recognize that. The Canadian Alliance hasn't. I'd like for someone to explain them to me, but I think I'd get a headache.

I'll leave you with this, stated by Garet Garett, an American poet, in 1955:

"How, now, thou American, frustrated crusader, do you know where you are?

"Is it security you want? There is no security at the top of the world.

"To thine own self a liberator, to the world an alarming portent, do you know where you are going from here?"

Remember those words.

Matt


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2003 5:13 am
 


The day after the WTC blew up I sent out an e-mail asking people to give blood. I explained that the people in the WTC would not be needing it, but a lot of soldiers and civilians the world over would. After sending the e-mail I drove to Saskatchewan for a little over a week.

When I got back my mail-box was full. Mrs. Rev was freaking because our leftist friends were accusing me of wanting war and our rightist friends were saying that I wanted to give aid and comfort to the enemy.

All I was really doing was telling people, many who don't really follow current events, to give blood because there was going to be a war. When I wrote the e-mail I didn't know who the war would be with, but it seemed and still seems) like common sense that blood would be in short supply for the next while.

I had already been wondering when George II was going to make his bid to take over the world. I knew that was coming shortly after he got appointed, so did a lot of people who follow politics and looked at his cabinet.

Anyway, that's the nightmare of 9-11 to me. It got Bush's take over the world plan rolling. We were all doomed when those planes hit that building, but that was really only the catalyst. We were really doomed the second the Supreme Court decided to make George II president.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2003 7:01 am
 


:roll: WOW And I thouhght I was the only one who saw that coming.... :roll:


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2003 9:22 am
 


An old friend of mine who was rather simple minded had a saying : " Things won't get any better until they get alot worse . " He used to say it quite a bit when we were growing up . He applied this little nugget of wisdom to everything from world events , to a football game we were losing in , to why his mother was late getting dinner on the table . Nothing will likely change in this country UNTIL :

We add a few milllion more people to the unemployment line.
We have a few million more people without health coverage.
We add a few million more homeless to the streets.
We have a few more catastrophic terrorist attacks fueled by hatred for our policies and actions.
We have a few million more children go hungry here in the U.S.
We pay a few more CEOs millions of dollars for doing absolutely nothing
We get a few more books from Michael Savage (#1 on bestseller list this week ).
We go to war with a few more countries.
We piss off our friends and allies a little bit more.
The American public gets a little bit more close minded.
We have a few more cuts in education and schools for our children.
President Bush eats a few more pretzels without the supervision of the secret service.
We replace the word FRENCH from anything - even if it has nothing to do with France .
We develop some new " low yield " nuclear weapons for landscaping purposes.
More SUVs are purchased.
We have a few more TV reality shows.
We continue to severly compromise social security and medicare for future generations.
We give more tax cuts to the upper 5% of our population who need it most.
We cut services for the retarded and physically challenged of our society.
Our press becomes more restricted.
We have a few more corporate mergers.
We install and support a few more compliant " leaders " in other countries.
We privitize a few more social service organizations
We get more natural resourcces from Canada , and more cheap labor from Mexico.
We have several squadrons of new F -22 fighter jets at 90+ million a piece.
We further develop our own bio weapons programs.
We ease regulations on companies who polute the enviroment.

I could go on , but after all the above , things should start to look better for America . And if Canada tries really hard , and elects Ralph Klein prime minister , it can be just like us . Oh , and to make sure Klein gets elected , consult Jeb Bush on how to conduct the voting.


Last edited by electricbuford on Sun Mar 30, 2003 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2003 9:33 am
 


Hey! be nice !!I happen to like Mr Klein


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2003 9:53 am
 


Ah, we'll change your mind on that RH...unless Ralph does it first, that is. :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2003 10:45 am
 


electricbuford wrote:
An old friend of mine who was rather simple minded had a saying : " Things won't get any better until they get alot worse . " He used to say it quite a bit when we were growing up . He applied this little nugget of wisdom to everything from world events , to a football game we were losing in , to why his mother was late getting dinner on the table . Nothing will likely change in this country UNTIL :


Wow, what a passionate message. I mailed that out to a few of my friends who I know will appreciate that. Your comments are right on target.

But I think you're forgetting one other thing:

America gets a little fatter.

Don't forget that America hogs the world's food, and is now, to my understanding, the fattest nation in the history of man. If you think cutting budgets for health care and such is going to screw medical coverage, just wait until 70% of the adult population has diabetes, heart disease, and stroke. Of course, the stomach stapling business will boom [shudder].

Regarding 9-11 and the downturn of American society, I felt my stomach drop as I watched the news on 11 September 2001. Not because of the death and the carnage--but because I knew this was coming. I knew this would be our excuse. As a matter of fact, I said that to several people within minutes of the collapse--I was not received well. I still am not.

New Zealand Herald, March 29, 2003
John Roughan: September 11 has terrible effect on US thinking
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay. ... n=dialogue


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