[PublicAnimalNo9]

HyperionTheEvil wrote:

No one has said the the Theory of Evolution has become the Law of Evolution, my contention is that science gives us the path to construct those laws by using the scientific process to determine facts. And i have also said before I''m willing to lay the process of the Scientific Method against whatever Theology is any day of the week at any time. the scientific Method does not rely on leaps of "faith", it relies on testing theories again and again until they are either proven or disproven


You may require a leap of 'faith' for whatever you do, Science does not

By several evolutionists own admissions, in this case that is EXACTLY what has happened.
Professor Wolfgang Smith received his Ph.D. in Mathematics from Columbia University.
He has held faculty positions at the Massachusetts Institutes of Technology and
UCLA. He writes,

Quote:

I am opposed to Darwinism, or better said, to the transformist hypothesis as such, no matter what one takes to be the mechanism or cause (even perhaps teleological or theistic) of the postulated macroevolutionary leaps. I am convinced, moreover, that Darwinism, in whatever form, is not in fact a scientific theory, but a pseudo-metaphysical hypothesis decked out in scientific garb. In reality the theory derives its support not from empirical data or logical deductions of a scientific kind but from the circumstance that it happens to be the only doctrine of biological origins that can be conceived with the constricted Weltanschauung [worldview] to which a majority of scientists no doubt subscribe.

Dr. R. Merle d’Aubigne, head of the Orthopedic Department at the University of Paris remarks,

Quote:

The origin of life is still a mystery. As long as it has not been demonstrated by experimental realization, I cannot conceive of any physical or chemical condition [allowing evolution]….I cannot be satisfied by the idea that fortuitous mutation…can explain the complex and rational organization of the brain, but also of lungs, heart, kidneys, and even joints and muscles. How is it possible to escape the idea of some intelligent and organizing force?

Sir John Eccles, winner of the Nobel Prize for Physiology/Medicine says of evolution in “A Divine Design,”

Quote:

“One of its weak points is that it does not have any recognizable way in which conscious life could have emerged….”

Professor Harry Rubin, Professor of Molecular Biology and Research Virologist to the Virus Laboratory, University of California Berkeley and recipient of numerous prestigious awards, accepts non-Darwinian evolution but still remarks,

Quote:

“Life, even in bacteria, is too complex to have occurred by chance.”

Nobelist and evolutionist Dr. Robert A. Millikan comments,

Quote:

“The pathetic thing is that we have scientists who are trying to prove evolution, which no scientist can ever prove.”

Dr. Albert Fleishmann, zoologist at Erlangen University, writes,

Quote:

“The theory of evolution suffers from grave defects, which are more and more apparent as time advances. It can no longer square with practical scientific knowledge.”

Famous Canadian geologist William Dawson says,

Quote:

“the record of the rocks is decidedly against evolutionists.”

The highly regarded noncreationist anti-Darwinian French scientist Grasse says,

Quote:

“The explanatory doctrines of biological evolution do not stand up to an objective, in-depth criticism. They prove to be either in conflict with reality or else incapable of solving the major problems involved.”

Ken Hsu, the evolutionist professor at the Geological Institute in Zurich, E.T.H., and former president of the International Association of Sedimentologists, writes,

Quote:

“We have had enough of the Darwinian fallacy. It’s about time we cry: ‘The Emperor has no clothes.’”

Lemoine, a former president of the Geological Society of France and director of the Natural History Museum in Paris, as well as the editor of the Encyclopedie Francaise, declares that,

Quote:

“The theories of evolution, with which our studious youth have been deceived constitute actually a dogma that all the world continues to teach: but each, in his speciality, the zoologist or the botanist, ascertains that none of the explanations furnished is adequate….It results from this summary, that the theory of evolution is impossible.”

Julio Garrido, Sc.D., a member of the Spanish Royal Academy of Science and a
former president of the French Society of Crystallography and Mineralogy quotes French scholar and mathematician Georges Salet concerning the last 150 years of attempts to find evidence for evolution or even explanations of it:

Quote:

“During the last one hundred and fifty years of research that has been carried out along this line, there has been no discovery of anything [confirming evolution].”

Garrido also quotes French evolutionist Jen Rostand who writes,

Quote:

“The theory of evolution gives no answer to the important problem of the origin of life and presents only fallacious solutions to the problem of the nature of evolutive transformations…[Because of this situation] We are condemned to believe in evolution…. Perhaps we are now in a worse position than in 1850 because we have searched for one century and we have the impression that the different hypotheses are now exhausted.”

Dr. Garrido himself writes that evolution

Quote:

“is a simplistic idea, almost an infantile idea” and even that it is a philosophical disease: “The evolutionary theory is one of the ‘diseases,’ because it is the corruption of philosophical prejudices regarding a pure scientific question.”

An article by Howard Byington Holroyd, Ph.D., retired head of the Department of
Physics, Augustana College, Rock Island, Illinois, points out that evolution is nonsense. His research and calculations show “far beyond any reasonable doubt, that this theory is nothing more than physical and mathematical nonsense.”

R. Clyde McCone, Ph.D., Professor of Anthropology, California State University, Long Beach, states,

Quote:

“as an anthropologist, I object to evolution on the anthropological grounds that I have presented. There are no data for evolution.”

Roger Haines, Jr., J.D., research attorney for the California Third District Court of Appeals, Sacramento, writes that,

Quote:

“The arguments for macroevolution fail at every significant level when confronted by the facts.”

Finally, evolutionist and zoologist with the Department of Physiology and Biochemistry, University of Southampton (England), G. A. Kerkut writes the following conclusions in his Implications of Evolution. He refers to the seven basic assumptions of evolution and assesses their validity:

Quote:

The first assumption was that non-living things gave rise to living material.
This is still just an assumption…. There is, however, little evidence in favor of biogenesis and as yet we have no indication that it can be performed…. It is
therefore a matter of faith on the part of the biologist that biogenesis did occur….
The second assumption was that biogenesis occurred only once. This again
is a matter for belief rather than proof….
The third assumption was that Viruses, Bacteria, Protozoa and the higher
animals were all interrelated…. We have as yet no definite evidence about the way in which the Viruses, Bacteria or Protozoa are interrelated.
The fourth assumption was that the Protozoa gave rise to the Metazoa….
Here again nothing definite is known….
The fifth assumption was that the various invertebrate phyla are
interrelated…. The evidence, then for the affinities of the majority of the
invertebrates is tenuous and circumstantial; not the type of evidence that would
allow one to form a verdict of definite relationships.
The sixth assumption [is] that the invertebrates gave rise to the
vertebrates…. As Berrill states, “in a sense this account is science fiction.”
We are on somewhat stronger ground with the seventh assumption that the
fish, amphibia, reptiles, birds, and mammals are interrelated. There is the fossil evidence to help us here, though many of the key transitions are not well documented and we have as yet to obtain a satisfactory objective method of dating the fossils…. The evidence that we have at present is insufficient to allow us to decide the answer to these problems.

Kerkut goes on to state that,

Quote:

"in essence, evolution has to be taken on pure faith: the evidence is circumstantial and much of it can be argued either way."

He says of these initial assumptions for evolution,

Quote:

“The evidence is still lacking for most of them.”

Scientists may claim evolution is a demonstrated fact, and this may routinely be stated in student textbooks, but this is wrong.

I hope you noticed that a number of those quotes have come FROM evolutionist scientists.

[HyperionTheEvil]

I found this pro-intelgent quote dump which you apparently copy and pasted

http://www.members.shaw.ca/mark.64/hcib/greatquote.html







instead of going through your cherry picked quotes ill offer this it may not be as sexy as your bogus religiously motivated quotes but it offers the helpful links to real information

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution#References


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Further reading
Introductory reading
Carroll, S. (2005). Endless Forms Most Beautiful. New York: W.W. Norton. ISBN 0-393-06016-0.
Charlesworth, C.B. and Charlesworth, D. (2003). Evolution. Oxfordshire: Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-192-80251-8.
Dawkins, R. (2006). The Selfish Gene: 30th Anniversary Edition. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0199291152.
Gould, S.J. (1989). Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History. New York: W.W. Norton. ISBN 0-393-30700-X.
Jones, S. (2001). Almost Like a Whale: The Origin of Species Updated. (American title: Darwin's Ghost). New York: Ballantine Books. ISBN 0-345-42277-5.
Mader, Sylvia S. (2007). Biology. Murray P. Pendarvis (9th ed.). McGraw Hill. ISBN 9780073258393.
Maynard Smith, J. (1993). The Theory of Evolution: Canto Edition. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0-521-45128-0.
Pallen, M.J. (2009). The Rough Guide to Evolution. Rough Guides. ISBN 978-1-85828-946-5.
Smith, C.B. and Sullivan, C. (2007). The Top 10 Myths about Evolution. Prometheus Books. ISBN 978-1-59102-479-8.
History of evolutionary thought
Darwin, Charles (1859). On the Origin of Species (1st ed.). London: John Murray. http://darwin-online.org.uk/content/fra ... &pageseq=1.
Larson, E.J. (2004). Evolution: The Remarkable History of a Scientific Theory. New York: Modern Library. ISBN 0-679-64288-9.
Zimmer, C. (2001). Evolution: The Triumph of an Idea. London: HarperCollins. ISBN 0-060-19906-7.
Advanced reading
Barton, N.H., Briggs, D.E.G., Eisen, J.A., Goldstein, D.B. and Patel, N.H. (2007). Evolution. Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory Press. ISBN 0-879-69684-2.
Coyne, J.A. and Orr, H.A. (2004). Speciation. Sunderland: Sinauer Associates. ISBN 0-878-93089-2.
Futuyma, D.J. (2005). Evolution. Sunderland: Sinauer Associates. ISBN 0-878-93187-2.
Gould, S.J. (2002). The Structure of Evolutionary Theory. Cambridge: Belknap Press (Harvard University Press). ISBN 0-674-00613-5.
Maynard Smith, J. and Szathmáry, E. (1997). The Major Transitions in Evolution. Oxfordshire: Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-198-50294-X.
Mayr, E. (2001). What Evolution Is. New York: Basic Books. ISBN 0-465-04426-3.
Olson, Wendy; Hall, Brian Keith (2003). Keywords and concepts in evolutionary developmental biology. Cambridge: Harvard University Press. ISBN 0-674-02240-8.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

HyperionTheEvil wrote:

I found this pro-intelgent quote dump which you apparently copy and pasted

http://www.members.shaw.ca/mark.64/hcib/greatquote.html

Well that's a weird coincidence cuz I never heard of that site and sure wasn't anywhere near it. I linked to mine ultimately from an article that made me laugh that had been published in Scientific American about how our ape ancestors had developed the ability to cook their food which enabled their brains to "evlove" the complexity for the next evolutionary step to H.Sapiens. To be fair to Scientific American, they didn't give the theory much credence nor did others of the author's peerage.
Although I have no idea WHY S.A. would make it their cover story in the Feb. 2008 issue (If I remember the correct issue date)
Here's the thing, I meticulously avoid using information from decidedly pro-creation, pro-ID, etc websites. If I go looking for stuff in this vein and the site has ANYTHING to do with either of those, I exit it and go on to find one that doesn't. It hardly does anything to use an argument for something you don't even believe in as evidence against your beliefs now does it?
In a similar debate in here, Dayseed posted(finally ) a link about Dr. Lenski's experiments with E.Coli. I'm glad he did cuz the only other stuff I read about his experiments was rather dated and NOT promising. It was really quite interesting and I'll freely admit that, despite it still just being micro-evolution, so far, this is the only series of tests that have been done that I've seen or heard of that shows any REAL promise of tilting the scales towards macro-evolution as more than just a best guess, albeit not necessarily a stupid or irrational one.
And ya know, despite whether someone got their quotes from the same source as I did is irrelevant when you types go on and on about science but when a NON-religious scientist in the field casts doubt on the current theory of evolution as being taught as fact in our schools as not very probable, all of a sudden, THOSE scientists don't know what they're talking about. And yet you talk about having the guts to state the "facts" without hiding behind religion. It takes guts to stand up against the majority and the status quo. It takes guts to be a scientist studying and believing in evolution and yet say, "Ya know what? We still don't really know anything." That's called shitting in your own backyard and most intelligent people won't do that, unless they have a damn good reason to.
Science is a very valuable tool no doubt. We'd be screwed without it. But the simple fact is we have NO idea how we got here, and until we can answer that question, everything else in that vein is pure speculation. Unless some amazing, truly astounding, absolute no doubt discovery is made.
If that day comes, rest assured, I'll be the first person on here to admit I was wrong.

[PluggyRug]

Methinks a junior school course should be directed on the subject of how to avoid religion.

Free thinking and all that.

I was forced to attend church and Sunday school up until the age of 14 years.

I was astounded at the hypocrisy furthered by church leaders and their ilk.

After that religion ( in all it's forms) became am anathema.