[Tricks]

Robair Robair:

"Explain it like I'm 5" version

Basically, it limits farm outputs to aprox the amount Canadians consume. So there is no overproduction resulting from tech breakthroughs etc.

The US has no checks and balances like that in place. So as their commodity prices drop due to overproduction, their response has been to throw tax payer money at the farmers. Same in Europe.

So there is an over supply of tax subsidized products everywhere but in Canada. And everywhere but in Canada it costs a lot of taxpayer money.

If you are American, you pay for every bodies cheese, milk etc with your taxes. Even if you're lactose intolerant.

In Canada, you pay what it actually costs. No tax subsidies. So you can choose to just not buy cheese if you want to vs you are buying cheese whether you consume it or not USA model comrade.

Alright, that links helps a lot.

Second question. Lets say supply management is gone, subsidies too, and we allow free trade across the border. That wouldn't fix America's system right? The issue seems to be an over abundance, and all it would do is ruin the canadian dairy industry, while not actually helping the american one. Is that a fair statement? It would effectively drag down the canadian dairy farmers with the american ones?

[Robair]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Robair Robair:

So you can choose to just not buy cheese if you want

Do you know any actual Canadians?

Good point.

[BartSimpson]

Robair Robair:

If you are American, you pay for every bodies cheese, milk etc with your taxes. Even if you're lactose intolerant.

In Canada, you pay what it actually costs.

No, you're paying a price that reflects an artificial pricing floor set by your government in order to provide cartel or monopolistic pricing for just twenty-five major dairies across your country.

Yes, absent the subsidies I expect US dairy prices to rise to a market level. If California's protectionist scheme gets overthrown in court then even with the absence of subsidies I expect California diary prices to fall.

In any case, our dairy without subsidies will still be cheaper than yours.

[BartSimpson]

Robair Robair:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Robair Robair:

So you can choose to just not buy cheese if you want

Do you know any actual Canadians?

Good point.

[Robair]

Tricks Tricks:

Second question. Lets say supply management is gone, subsidies too, and we allow free trade across the border. That wouldn't fix America's system right? The issue seems to be an over abundance, and all it would do is ruin the canadian dairy industry, while not actually helping the american one. Is that a fair statement? It would effectively drag down the canadian dairy farmers with the american ones?

If subsidies were gone everywhere then we could allow free trade.

But Canada can not afford to match American and European subsidies. So if we turfed supply management, American and European products would flood our markets at basement prices (because they are heavily subsidized) and our industry disappears pretty much over night.

Canadian dairy farmers get zero subsidies. Nothing.

So if we as a nation want to maintain the ability to produce our own food, something I think is very important, we need to defend the supply management system against Trumps misinformation campaign to win himself a fucking soundbite.

[BartSimpson]

Robair Robair:

If subsidies were gone everywhere then we could allow free trade.

But Canada can not afford to match American and European subsidies. So if we turfed supply management, American and European products would flood our markets at basement prices (because they are heavily subsidized) and our industry disappears pretty much over night.

Canadian dairy farmers get zero subsidies. Nothing.

So if we as a nation want to maintain the ability to produce our own food, something I think is very important, we need to defend the supply management system against Trumps misinformation campaign to win himself a fucking soundbite.

Well, then we're back to the place where if you folks maintain barriers to our products then we get to do the same for your products.

[Tricks]

Robair Robair:

If subsidies were gone everywhere then we could allow free trade.

But Canada can not afford to match American and European subsidies. So if we turfed supply management, American and European products would flood our markets at basement prices (because they are heavily subsidized) and our industry disappears pretty much over night.

Canadian dairy farmers get zero subsidies. Nothing.

So if we as a nation want to maintain the ability to produce our own food, something I think is very important, we need to defend the supply management system against Trumps misinformation campaign to win himself a fucking soundbite.

My question is are the subsidies there because of over production, or is there over production because of subsidies?

[BartSimpson]

Tricks Tricks:

Robair Robair:

If subsidies were gone everywhere then we could allow free trade.

But Canada can not afford to match American and European subsidies. So if we turfed supply management, American and European products would flood our markets at basement prices (because they are heavily subsidized) and our industry disappears pretty much over night.

Canadian dairy farmers get zero subsidies. Nothing.

So if we as a nation want to maintain the ability to produce our own food, something I think is very important, we need to defend the supply management system against Trumps misinformation campaign to win himself a fucking soundbite.

My question is are the subsidies there because of over production, or is there over production because of subsidies?

The real question here is that supply management policies are not about protecting Canadian dairies from competition (fair or unfair) it's about the government creating a cartel structure that benefits twenty-five large firms at the expense of Canadian consumers.

Let's say Canada NEVER allows US products into the Canadian market.

Then why have supply management and who does it really benefit?

[Tricks]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Tricks Tricks:

Robair Robair:

If subsidies were gone everywhere then we could allow free trade.

But Canada can not afford to match American and European subsidies. So if we turfed supply management, American and European products would flood our markets at basement prices (because they are heavily subsidized) and our industry disappears pretty much over night.

Canadian dairy farmers get zero subsidies. Nothing.

So if we as a nation want to maintain the ability to produce our own food, something I think is very important, we need to defend the supply management system against Trumps misinformation campaign to win himself a fucking soundbite.

My question is are the subsidies there because of over production, or is there over production because of subsidies?

The real question here is that supply management policies are not about protecting Canadian dairies from competition (fair or unfair) it's about the government creating a cartel structure that benefits twenty-five large firms at the expense of Canadian consumers.

Let's say Canada NEVER allows US products into the Canadian market.

Then why have supply management and who does it really benefit?

But we do let it in. The article Robair posted says we let in a 10% quota. Whereas the U.S. does 2.75%. It also says there are 16000 quota holders to provide for Canada.

[CharlesAnthony]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Let's say Canada NEVER allows US products into the Canadian market.
Then why have supply management and who does it really benefit?

It benefits domestic suppliers.
or
Canuckletards pay more and the excess lands into the pockets of domestic suppliers. Canadian dairy farmers crowd out small-scale hobby farming which would otherwise supply the nation at dirt cheap prices.

There is no free-trade between provinces. Canuckletards who expect to hold the "Winning!" end of the stick are in for a surprise.





None of these negotiations matter anyways. They are a smoke-screen to conceal the inevitable: monetary collapse.

[herbie]

Point is, it's sweet fuck all of the overall trade market but everyone's now convinced it's the big deal.
Especially Trump. He loves some pissy little issue to make like it's a big one.

[MeganC]

herbie herbie:

He loves some pissy little issue to make like it's a big one.

Isn't that like the majority of men pretending something so small is such a big deal?

[Robair]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Let's say Canada NEVER allows US products into the Canadian market.

Then why have supply management and who does it really benefit?

The answer isn't hard to find. Either of the links i just posted could enlighten you.

The question is, WHY do taxpayers provide half of american dairy farmers income?

Same reason we implemented supply management.

I know which system I prefer.

[martin14]

Tricks Tricks:

My question is are the subsidies there because of over production, or is there over production because of subsidies?

Both, of course.

It's normal, people very quickly get addicted to gubbermint gibmedats.

Imagine, gov't gives farmer money to produce lots of stuff. So he does.
Farmer is happy because he gets extra money for producing more of this and not
of that. So he does.

Then you have the situation where the farmer gets paid a subsidy for not producing
something, because the price crashed or bumper year or scandal or something.

Or, even better, the farmer gets paid by gov't for not producing anything at all.

Now there is good value for your tax money right there.

And then they get used to the free money.
Biggest item in the EU budget is......... Agricultural subsidies to EU farmers.



Or, you can have the Canadian system, where the government will tell you
how much and what you can produce, and what price you will get for it.
All before you wake up in the morning.

Freedom, fuck yeah !...... nope.

[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Well, then we're back to the place where if you folks maintain barriers to our products then we get to do the same for your products.

The oversupply in your system is greater than what our entire system produces.

You won't miss our products, and since we don't overproduce, we don't need your market.