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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:16 am
 


We needed a catch-all for this topic as it's starting to create more news.

Starting things off here:

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/w ... e36160015/

Quote:
Canada demands U.S. end ‘right to work’ laws as part of NAFTA talks

Canadian negotiators are demanding the United States roll back so-called "right to work" laws – accused of gutting unions in some U.S. states by starving them of money – as part of the renegotiation of the North American free-trade agreement. The request is part of a push by Ottawa to get the U.S. and Mexico to adopt higher labour standards under the deal.

Mexico, meanwhile, is campaigning to include its oil and gas sector in the deal.

These major moves on the labour and energy files came over the weekend at the second round of NAFTA renegotiations in Mexico City.

One group of negotiators spent all day Sunday working on the labour file, according to a schedule of the talks obtained by The Globe and Mail. One source familiar with the discussions said Canada wants the United States to pass a federal law stopping state governments from enacting right-to-work legislation; the source said the United States has not agreed to such a request. Canada believes that lower labour standards in the United States and Mexico, including right to work, give those countries an unfair advantage in attracting jobs.

Jerry Dias, the leader of Canada's largest private-sector trade union, said Ottawa's negotiators are: pushing Mexico on its corporate-sanctioned unions, which are accused of negotiating collective agreements unfavourable to workers; agitating for both countries to offer a year of paid family leave, as Canada does; and targeting American right-to-work laws that allow workers in unionized shops to refuse to pay dues, draining money from unions.


I assume that the Canadian negotiators want to kill NAFTA because there's no fucking way that the states who implemented "Right to Work" will turn around and force people back into unions.

Lots of Republicans and libertarians objected to being forced into unions because the fucking unions almost uniformly promoted the far left agenda of open borders, socialism, high taxes, and the dumbest damned thing has been auto, steel, and coal mining unions that were paying for environmental lobbyists who wanted to shut down all three of these industries.

If Canada's unionized workers can't compete with free people then too fucking bad. We're not going to force people to go back under the union shop.

Ain't happening.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:17 am
 


I boldly predict that Canada caves in on pretty much everything and ends up with the short end of the stick, in the same way we always do when we sign on to one of these fucking agreements.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:20 am
 


I boldly predict that NAFTA renegotiations will end in an impasse and the US will pull out of it.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:23 am
 


I predict that the US will not remove the arbitration panels it so desperately wants gone. We won't stand for the US using it's own courts to justify unfair trade practices, while letting it's own unfair trade practices continue.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:42 am
 


I predict Freeland will cry .. again.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:58 am
 


DrCaleb wrote:
I predict that the US will not remove the arbitration panels it so desperately wants gone. We won't stand for the US using it's own courts to justify unfair trade practices, while letting it's own unfair trade practices continue.


Like I said, NAFTA is going to end.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:12 am
 


BartSimpson wrote:
DrCaleb wrote:
I predict that the US will not remove the arbitration panels it so desperately wants gone. We won't stand for the US using it's own courts to justify unfair trade practices, while letting it's own unfair trade practices continue.


Like I said, NAFTA is going to end.


I highly doubt it. All of North America has too much to lose over it's loss.

Until Canada finalizes the TPP and CETA, that is. ;)


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:26 am
 


Trump has vehemently opposed NAFTA from the very outset and I just don't see him passing on an opportunity to kill it.

If Canada and Mexico hand him the tools to destroy it then I expect he'll be happy to blame them for the treaty's demise.

Note that he's also starting to leverage the North Korea crisis to put an end to the open door for Chinese trade in the USA.

I'm all in favor of that latter point while noting that my 2007 Volvo is going to be sidelined if there's a trade embargo because Volvo is now owned by China. I won't get any parts for the beastie.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:30 am
 


Quote:
Canada demands U.S. end ‘right to work’ laws as part of NAFTA talks


Funny thing, I just heard a rumor/comment on the radio that the US negotiators joked about 'demanding' that Canada respect the right to keep and bear arms, religious rights, and free speech rights.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:32 am
 


Canada wants to end Right to SCAB laws? Good, we've got some balls afterm all.
Not likely though that a President with no sense of shame whatsoever would impose that on others with no sense of shame.
But that's not Free Trade. Just like trying to make Mexico pay auto workers better wages. That's Fair Trade.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:41 am
 


Herbie,

I for one have no opposition to anyone joining a union. What I oppose and what many others oppose is that people are often FORCED to join a union in order to get a particular job.

Let the unions compete for members and we'll have better unions.

It might surprise you that I do not have to be a union member to have my job but I'm a member of SEIU because aside from the political shit they do I believe they're a very necessary organization.

But if I had my way I'd join another union if I could. You can do that in a right-to-work state but not in California.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:42 am
 


BartSimpson wrote:
Trump has vehemently opposed NAFTA from the very outset and I just don't see him passing on an opportunity to kill it.

If Canada and Mexico hand him the tools to destroy it then I expect he'll be happy to blame them for the treaty's demise.


"When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a nail."

Trump will do what he wants, he doesn't need us to give him an excuse. If he is at all serious about the economy, like we think he is, then his bluster will pass and hopefully we can work something out that we all can live with. As the saying goes, 'if every side comes away dissatisfied, then it was a successful negotiation.'


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:44 am
 


Nothing will change. This is all bad theater to distract the masses from other things going on.

BartSimpson wrote:
Funny thing, I just heard a rumor/comment on the radio that the US negotiators joked about 'demanding' that Canada respect the right to keep and bear arms, religious rights, and free speech rights.
The whole thing is a joke. All of those "negotiators" are bad actors. We should be throwing tomatoes at them until we get better comedy.

"Pay no attention to the illusionists other hand!"


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:44 am
 


BartSimpson wrote:
Quote:
Canada demands U.S. end ‘right to work’ laws as part of NAFTA talks


Funny thing, I just heard a rumor/comment on the radio that the US negotiators joked about 'demanding' that Canada respect the right to keep and bear arms, religious rights, and free speech rights.


Why would adopting the US Constitution be a condition of a trade deal?

And we have two of those things. ;) The third is optional.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:17 am
 


CBC has a good piece on how madcap this entire thing will be. And Canada isn't off the hook for our usual self-righteous BS either:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/canada-n ... -1.4275910

Quote:
Canada wants the United States government to prohibit "right to work" laws that exist in about half the 50 states. It also wants Mexico and the U.S. to toughen up environmental regulations, and wants the deal to address Indigenous and gender rights.

Admittedly, "right to work" is a pretty dubious label. It basically means workers don't have to pay union dues, which of course cripples unions. And absent a collective agreement, a worker can be fired any time for any reason, or no reason at all. Barack Obama called it "the right to work for less."

In that sense, American companies do have an edge over Canadian companies, which have to abide by far more laws meant to protect workers.

And the American workers'-rights vacuum can get pretty weird, at least by Canadian standards. My favourite example is the 2012 case of the dentist in Iowa, a right to work state, who fired his dental assistant because she was too attractive, and he was having fantasies about sex with her, and felt (along with his wife and pastor) that his horniness was endangering his marriage.

The dental assistant, whose professional behaviour had been impeccable, and whose only sin was not being ugly, sued and lost. Imagine that case going to court in Canada?

Mexico is another story. It is far more corrupt, and trade unions are often effectively owned and operated by the employer, which means collective agreements aren't agreements at all, but simply the employer's notion of how things should operate. Again, that's a competitive edge.

As for environmental standards, well, we have the tarsands – sorry, the oilsands – one of the biggest emitters of greenhouse gases on the planet. Gender rights? We sell weapons to Saudi Arabia, which crushes minorities and treats women like house pets. Indigenous rights? I have been to indigenous communities in the United States that are wealthy, and to Indigenous communities there that are dirt poor.

Just like Canada.


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