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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 12:42 pm
 


The Last Argument of Fools
How America Has Changed Iraq

By WILLIAM BLUM

"If the United States leaves Iraq things will really get bad."

This appears to be the last remaining, barely-breathing argument of that vanishing species who still support the god-awful war. The argument implies a deeply-felt concern about the welfare and safety of the Iraqi people. What else could it mean? That the US military can't leave because it's needed to protect the oil bonanza awaiting American oil companies as soon as the Iraqi parliament approves the new written-in-Washington oil law? No, the Bush administration loves the people of Iraq. How much more destruction, killing and torturing do you need to be convinced of that? We can't leave because of the violence. We can't leave until we have assured that peace returns to our dear comrades in Iraq.

To better understand this argument, it helps to keep in mind the following about the daily horror that is life in Iraq: It did not exist before the US occupation.

The insurgency violence began as, and remains, a reaction to the occupation; like almost all insurgencies in occupied countries -- from the American Revolution to the Vietcong -- it's a fight directed toward getting foreign forces to leave.

The next phase was the violence of Iraqis against other Iraqis who worked for or sought employment with anything associated with the occupation regime.

Then came retaliatory attacks for these attacks.

Followed by retaliatory attacks for the retaliatory attacks.

Jihadists from many countries have flocked to Iraq because they see the war against the American Satan occupiers as a holy war.

Before the occupation, many Sunnis and Shiites married each other; since the occupation they have been caught up in a spiral of hating and killing each other.

And for these acts there, of course, has to be retaliation.

The occupation's abolishment of most jobs in the military and in Saddam Hussein's government, and the chaos that is Iraqi society under the occupation, have left many destitute; kidnapings for ransom and other acts of criminal violence have become popular ways to make a living, or at least survive.

US-trained, financed, and armed Iraqi forces have killed large numbers of people designated as "terrorists" by someone official, or perhaps someone unofficial, or by someone unknown, or by chance.

The US military itself has been a main perpetrator of violence, killing individually and en masse, killing any number, any day, for any reason, anyone, any place, often in mindless retaliation against anyone nearby for an insurgent attack.

The US military and its coalition allies have also been the main target of violent attacks. A Department of Defense report of November 2006 stated: "Coalition forces remained the target of the majority of attacks (68%)."

And here is James Baker, establishment eminence, co-chair of the Iraq Study Group, on CNN with Anderson Cooper:

Cooper: And is it possible that getting the U.S. troops out will actually lessen that violence, that it will at least take away the motivation of nationalist insurgents?

Baker: Many people have argued that to us. Many people in Iraq made that case.

Cooper: Do you buy it?

Baker: Yes, I think there is some validity to it, absolutely. Then we are no longer seen to be the occupiers.

In spite of all of the above we are told that the presence of the United States military has been and will continue to be a buffer against violence. Iraqis themselves do not believe this. A poll published in September found that Iraqis believe, by a margin of 78 to 21 percent, that the US military presence is "provoking more conflict that it is preventing".

Remember that we were warned a thousand times of a communist bloodbath in Vietnam if American forces left. The American forces left. There was never any kind of bloodbath.

If the United States leaves -- meaning all its troops and bases -- it will remove the very foundation, origin, and inspiration of most of the hate and violence. Iraqis will have a chance to reclaim their land and their life. They have a right to be given that opportunity. Let America's deadly "love" embrace of the Iraqi people come to an end. Let the healing begin.

William Blum is the author of Killing Hope: U.S. Military and CIA Interventions Since World War II, Rogue State: a guide to the World's Only Super Power. and West-Bloc Dissident: a Cold War Political Memoir.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 1:00 pm
 


Good article, here's a backgrounder on the Hydrocarbon law:

http://baltimorechronicle.com/2007/032907Hussain.shtml


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 1:52 pm
 


The road to freedom is messy and the Tree of Liberty is always watered with blood. Iraq will appreciate their eventual liberty all the more due to the process they are working through. Were freedom just handed to them they'd have no appreciation for it.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 2:41 pm
 


Calgary123 wrote:

Remember that we were warned a thousand times of a communist bloodbath in Vietnam if American forces left. The American forces left. There was never any kind of bloodbath.


Not true, thousands were killed in the North's campaign to take over the South in 1975, including soldiers defending their homeland and hundreds of civilian refugees. It was far less than what happened during the actual conflict (1964-73), but thousands died nonetheless.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 2:57 pm
 


bootlegga wrote:
Calgary123 wrote:

Remember that we were warned a thousand times of a communist bloodbath in Vietnam if American forces left. The American forces left. There was never any kind of bloodbath.


Not true, thousands were killed in the North's campaign to take over the South in 1975, including soldiers defending their homeland and hundreds of civilian refugees. It was far less than what happened during the actual conflict (1964-73), but thousands died nonetheless.


Thousands died fleeing the Commies and tens of thousands died in their "re-education camps".

Then there was the famine in the south when the war with China took place. Another 100,000 or so died in that and another 10-30 thousand died fleeing the 'worker's paradise' in 1980-85.


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 12:26 pm
 


BartSimpson wrote:
bootlegga wrote:
Calgary123 wrote:

Remember that we were warned a thousand times of a communist bloodbath in Vietnam if American forces left. The American forces left. There was never any kind of bloodbath.


Not true, thousands were killed in the North's campaign to take over the South in 1975, including soldiers defending their homeland and hundreds of civilian refugees. It was far less than what happened during the actual conflict (1964-73), but thousands died nonetheless.


Thousands died fleeing the Commies and tens of thousands died in their "re-education camps".

Then there was the famine in the south when the war with China took place. Another 100,000 or so died in that and another 10-30 thousand died fleeing the 'worker's paradise' in 1980-85.


Which makes the war started by the US even worse Bart... since all of this could have been avoided by not fabricating an excuse to engage in war in the first place.

Can you say Gulf of Tonkin?

The US seems to have a long and sordid history behind their "wars" they create... past and present.


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 12:34 pm
 


Looks like Calgary found the topic he knows the most about.


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 10:10 pm
 


BartSimpson wrote:
The road to freedom is messy and the Tree of Liberty is always watered with blood. Iraq will appreciate their eventual liberty all the more due to the process they are working through. Were freedom just handed to them they'd have no appreciation for it.

What kind of freedom is a national curfew and totalitarian wage and price controls? Iraq is no freer today than it was under Saddam. People can vote...woop-dee-doo. Democracy has nothing to do with freedom.


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 8:45 am
 


These impatient folk do not realize that these things take time and it is a bumpy ride.

The US period of "Reconstruction" following the War Between the States is in some ways still in progress.

:roll:


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 3:00 pm
 


sasquatch2 wrote:
These impatient folk do not realize that these things take time and it is a bumpy ride.

The US period of "Reconstruction" following the War Between the States is in some ways still in progress.

:roll:


Oh my gawd... please tell me you are joking about "reconstruction". The US government doesn't give a shit about helping the people of Iraq. Cheney is only in Baghdad right now to ensure the Iraqi parliament doesn't take their planned 2 month vacation so they can hustle through this oil legislation... aka the "legalized" theft of Iraqi's oil resources.

The US don't even care enough about their own troops, let alone the Iraqi people.


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 9:29 pm
 


BartSimpson wrote:
The road to freedom is messy and the Tree of Liberty is always watered with blood. Iraq will appreciate their eventual liberty all the more due to the process they are working through. Were freedom just handed to them they'd have no appreciation for it.


Very true. Freedom in this world is not something you just get. The American War of Independance was about freedom, and what a war it was. You want to be free, you have to fight for it. You want to remain free, you have to fight for it.

From time to time, the price of liberty must be paid for with the blood of patriots. It was true then, it is true now.

Before you go off saying Canada got to be free without war, that is not true. The British empire knew that if Canada wanted to be free, and they said no, that it would be another bloody war they would lose, as the Americans would come up and help us. Really, Canada has the USA to thank for Her peaceful freedom.

Thanks, guys.


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 9:38 pm
 


i know this will rattle cages to no end but the majority of iraqis want the americans out


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 10:01 pm
 


Quote:
Calgary123
Oh my gawd... please tell me you are joking about "reconstruction". The US government doesn't give a shit about helping the people of Iraq. Cheney is only in Baghdad right now to ensure the Iraqi parliament doesn't take their planned 2 month vacation so they can hustle through this oil legislation... aka the "legalized" theft of Iraqi's oil resources.

The US don't even care enough about their own troops, let alone the Iraqi people.


Is it possible, in theory, to plumb the very depth of your anti-american hatred?

The Cold War is Over and your side Lost.
:roll:


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 6:10 pm
 


Calgary123 wrote:
sasquatch2 wrote:
These impatient folk do not realize that these things take time and it is a bumpy ride.

The US period of "Reconstruction" following the War Between the States is in some ways still in progress.

:roll:


Oh my gawd... please tell me you are joking about "reconstruction". The US government doesn't give a shit about helping the people of Iraq. Cheney is only in Baghdad right now to ensure the Iraqi parliament doesn't take their planned 2 month vacation so they can hustle through this oil legislation... aka the "legalized" theft of Iraqi's oil resources.

The US don't even care enough about their own troops, let alone the Iraqi people.

You know frankly I'm getting a bit tired of you.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 2:27 pm
 


sasquatch2 wrote:
Quote:
Calgary123
Oh my gawd... please tell me you are joking about "reconstruction". The US government doesn't give a shit about helping the people of Iraq. Cheney is only in Baghdad right now to ensure the Iraqi parliament doesn't take their planned 2 month vacation so they can hustle through this oil legislation... aka the "legalized" theft of Iraqi's oil resources.

The US don't even care enough about their own troops, let alone the Iraqi people.


Is it possible, in theory, to plumb the very depth of your anti-american hatred?

The Cold War is Over and your side Lost.
:roll:


My side? What in the hell are you talking about?

You are such a freaking zombie, all you know is "Anti-US" like it's some friggin mantra... try understanding the reality of the situation before kicking in the old defence mechanism that tells you to take anything critical of the US policy, and file it away as "Anti-American". Try dealing with facts for a change.

In case you aren't keeping up with current events... if you support US war crimes, you are in the world minority (and US included).

Everything I said was true... deal with it.


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