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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:09 pm
 


http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011 ... on-eu.html

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A major rift is forming in Britain’s coalition government over Prime Minister David Cameron’s decision to block a European Union treaty to save the euro.

Calling the move a “bad decision for Britain, Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg lashed out over the weekend at Cameron, saying it would leave the country “isolated and marginalized.”


Seems Nick's knickers are all in a bunch over this. I wonder if he hopes to captitalize on it and drop the term deputy? This could backfire, if the voters see him trying to surrender too much control of Britain to the Franks.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:59 pm
 


Britain needs to shit or get off the pot. They want to be in the EU, but only the parts they like. Hate to be their waiter in a restaurant - "I'll have the sea bass, but poached not grilled with the sauce on the side and red potatoes instead of white and substitute the veg for the tossed salad but pick out the mushrooms...."

Since Germany seems to hold all the economic cards and can only get sucked down by everybody else, I'd like to see Merkel just go "Isss mein vay or the autobahn you dumbkoffs."


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:18 pm
 


I'm all for them getting off the pot, I don't think the British are really in favour of the deeper integration among EU states that is coming down the road.

Out the the major European states, UK always seemed like the "third wheel" in the French-German love affair that is the EU.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:06 pm
 


French-German love affair... Who'd have thought?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:20 pm
 


Canadian_Mind wrote:
French-German love affair... Who'd have thought?


Better the love affair than the alternative. When the French don't put out the Germans have a habit of marching to Paris. :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:26 pm
 


saturn_656 wrote:
Canadian_Mind wrote:
French-German love affair... Who'd have thought?


Better the love affair than the alternative. When the French don't put out the Germans have a habit of marching to Paris. :lol:


I was gonna say, not looking forward to the eventual divorce...


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:33 am
 


andyt wrote:
They want to be in the EU, but only the parts they like.


Wrong. Most Britons want out of the EU.

Also, a recent survey showed that almost two-thirds of Britons support what Cameron did. This has also led to the Tories going ahead of Labour in the polls, with the Tories' coalition partners the LibDems trailing in third on just 10%.

62% of public agree with David Cameron's EU veto

by Dan Bourke
Daily Mirror
12/12/2011

A MAJORITY of voters would back David Cameron’s decision to veto the deal, according to a poll.

The Prime Minister has the support of 62% of the public, the Survation study found.

Just 19% said Mr Cameron was wrong to use the veto.

Two thirds now back a r­eferendum on Britain’s ­membership of the EU and 48% said the UK should quit the club, compared with 33% who said it should remain a member state.

Some 66% said Britain should ­renegotiate its ­relationship with Brussels, while 22% said it should not.


Read more: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-storie ... z1gX078OEb


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:09 pm
 


Batsy wrote:
andyt wrote:
They want to be in the EU, but only the parts they like.


Wrong. Most Britons want out of the EU.

Also, a recent survey showed that almost two-thirds of Britons support what Cameron did. This has also led to the Tories going ahead of Labour in the polls, with the Tories' coalition partners the LibDems trailing in third on just 10%.

62% of public agree with David Cameron's EU veto

by Dan Bourke
Daily Mirror
12/12/2011

A MAJORITY of voters would back David Cameron’s decision to veto the deal, according to a poll.

The Prime Minister has the support of 62% of the public, the Survation study found.

Just 19% said Mr Cameron was wrong to use the veto.

Two thirds now back a r­eferendum on Britain’s ­membership of the EU and 48% said the UK should quit the club, compared with 33% who said it should remain a member state.

Some 66% said Britain should ­renegotiate its ­relationship with Brussels, while 22% said it should not.


Read more: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-storie ... z1gX078OEb



So leave the EU already. That's my point. You guys are like the dog in the manger.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:41 pm
 


Good for the Brits. The EU was a bad idea from the start and Maastricht left a seriously bad impression with a lot of people with all of the unchecked power it would've given to Brussels.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:14 am
 


andyt wrote:

So leave the EU already. That's my point. You guys are like the dog in the manger.



We can only do that if the Government gives us an in/out referendum and then the British people vote in that referendum to leave.

I also look upon the British as being the good guys in the EU. It's not our fault that the EU was set up by France and Germany to favour France and Germany only and to hell with the rest. It's not our fault the French and Germans make the EU undemocratic. It's not our fault that the childish Sarkozy has the nerve to call Cameron "childish" just because Cameron had the audacity to stand up for British interests rather than Franco-German interests. It's not our fault the French are whingeing because Cameron stood up for the City of London, which makes up ten percent of the British economy, even though Britain accepting a tax on financial services would be like France supporting a tax on cheese.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:45 am
 


All fine and good - so leave the EU. At the moment it just looks like have your cake and eat it too.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:41 am
 


andyt wrote:
All fine and good - so leave the EU. At the moment it just looks like have your cake and eat it too.



I've never heard so much tosh in my life.

I can't see why Britain is "wanting to have its cake and eat it, too."

All that's happened is that Cameron refused to sign a treaty that would have been bad for Britain. What was he supposed to do? Just sign it anyway, just to please the French, Germans and Brussels? He's the British PM and the British people pay him to defend British interests, not Franco-German interests.

And Britain is hardly the only country, as many are trying to have us believe, that is not signing the treaty. Czech Republic and Hungary- two other countries which wisely decided to not join the euro - may not sign the treaty, either, as they disagree with the taxation part of it. The treaty may also not get through the parliament of Sweden - yet again, another non-euro country - because all the opposition parties are opposed to it.

At the end of the day Cameron stood up for British interests. Get over it.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:44 am
 


Saturday, 10th December 2011

Ten myths about Cameron’s EU veto

Mats Persson
6:55pm
The Economist

Mats Persson is director of Open Europe. On Monday, Open Europe published a report "Continental shift: Safeguarding the UK’s financial trade in a changing Europe", which can be read here.

Image

The EU veto that Cameron pulled in the early hours of Thursday morning has been widely misunderstood on all sides. Here are the 10 most common myths:

1. Because of Cameron’s veto, Britain lost a seat at the negotiating table.

Not true. The UK was never itself going to take part in the Merkozy pact (and potentially be subject to EU sanctions), and therefore not in the monthly, parallel EU meetings that will begin in January, either. Even if he had approved the Treaty changes, Cameron still would not have had a seat at the table. Wider political challenges aside, the veto didn’t change anything structurally in terms of UK influence.

2. Cameron’s veto created a two-tier Europe.

A two-tier (or, rather, multi-tier) Europe was a consequence of the formation of the euro, which would inevitably force its members closer together. Cameron’s veto was a reflection of a multi-tier Europe, not the cause of it.

3. The UK is now completely isolated.

Define isolated. Yes, Cameron expended a lot of political capital and frustrated many EU leaders — and he could have done some things differently, including sequenced his demands in a smarter way. But as Fraser pointed out earlier, the UK remains an open economy plugged into the global network. And given the state of the euro Britain is — as Terry Smith of brokerage firm Tullett Prebon told the BBC — ‘as isolated as someone left on the dock in Southampton as the Titanic sailed away.’

4. Cameron used his veto to protect a ‘tiny part of our economy’.

This claim slipped into the BBC’s Stephanie Flanders’ reports on Friday and is incorrect. Financial services accounted for a £35bn trade surplus last year — one of the few sectors that generated a surplus, as well almost 2 million jobs and it contributed £54bn in taxes.

5. Merkel got what she wanted.

This claim was also part of most broadcast reports and is equally untrue. Merkel got something, but, as Spiegel noted, she also ‘paid a high cost’ — compromising on ECJ budget powers and private sector involvement in future bailouts, for example — without achieving a lasting solution to the crisis. As yesterday’s FT Deutschland put it, ‘The next rescue summit is guaranteed to come.’

6. The UK is alone in expressing reservations about Merkozy’s deal.

Cameron was clearly all alone on the veto, but others are far from enthusiastic about what’s on offer. Part of the deal hit the wall in the Finnish Parliament, while the Swedish opposition parties are opposed to Sweden signing up, meaning that the deal may not make it through the Riksdag. Håkan Juholt, the leader of the Social Democrats, said, ‘The Swedish people rejected the single currency in a referendum and we have to respect that. We have no intention of becoming members through the backdoor.’

7. The UK asked for ‘special exemptions’.

Whether or not he asked for the right things, Cameron did not demand UK-specific ‘opt outs’ from regulations, but for the reinstatement of general vetoes over transfers of power to the EU’s financial supervisors and a guarantee that business and trading activities won’t be pushed inside the eurozone through regulation. The closest he got to an opt-out was a proposal to exempt certain types of businesses that only operate in one country from certain aspects of EU regulation.

8. Cameron went to Europe to protect greedy bankers.

One of his demands was to be able to impose stricter rules on banks (capital requirements) in order to avoid future taxpayer-backed bailouts of bankers.

9. The 17+ can easily use the EU institutions to enforce their decisions, making Cameron’s veto pointless.

ECJ case law clearly states that an ad hoc group of countries can use the EU institutions but only subject to an agreement by all EU member states sharing and paying for the institutions. This means that the UK still has a veto. Some EU leaders are now set on manipulating EU law to get around the UK veto (we’ve been here before). It’s not easy, but they may succeed. However, to criticise Cameron for this is to blame someone for losing in poker because the rules changed mid-way through the game.

To be fair, there have also been some misconceptions among those who would defend Cameron:

10. The veto was about blocking the financial transaction tax and specific financial regulations.

Not quite. Cameron already had a separate veto over the FTT, and the Treaty changes were merely about tightening the eurozone’s budget rules (from which the UK already has an opt-out). The veto was always a lever to push for safeguards against the UK being sidelined on key economic issues (i.e. financial regulation) in future as the eurozone integrated further. It was not a protective measure in itself.

So leaving misconceptions and domestic politics aside, did Cameron ‘trip over his own red line’ by spending a veto without actually getting any specific safeguards in return? There is a risk. But the truth is that it all depends on what happens next. As dramatic as Cameron’s veto may seem now, I suspect it is merely one of many acts.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehou...-eu-veto.thtml


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:09 am
 


Batsy wrote:
andyt wrote:
All fine and good - so leave the EU. At the moment it just looks like have your cake and eat it too.



I've never heard so much tosh in my life.



Batsy, meet Andyt - the 't' stand for 'tosh'.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:28 am
 


Batsy wrote:
andyt wrote:
All fine and good - so leave the EU. At the moment it just looks like have your cake and eat it too.



I've never heard so much tosh in my life.

I can't see why Britain is "wanting to have its cake and eat it, too."

All that's happened is that Cameron refused to sign a treaty that would have been bad for Britain. What was he supposed to do? Just sign it anyway, just to please the French, Germans and Brussels? He's the British PM and the British people pay him to defend British interests, not Franco-German interests.

And Britain is hardly the only country, as many are trying to have us believe, that is not signing the treaty. Czech Republic and Hungary- two other countries which wisely decided to not join the euro - may not sign the treaty, either, as they disagree with the taxation part of it. The treaty may also not get through the parliament of Sweden - yet again, another non-euro country - because all the opposition parties are opposed to it.

At the end of the day Cameron stood up for British interests. Get over it.



Step away from the troll Batsy. andy knows nothing about the UK or the EU. He just likes to post shite on subjects he knows sweet FA about. He heard about the EU in a long sentence on a wiki-extract. His expertise on the matter ends there.


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