[crystalsm]

I admire, your overuse of, commas,

[Regina]

crystalsm crystalsm:

I admire, your overuse of, commas,

Booted for bad grammer!!

[ShepherdsDog]

Grammer??? What I can't understand, is how there are so many local professionals here, who received a degree from accredited Western universities. Who the f@ck graded their papers?

[BeaverFever]

Employers have been complaining for the past several years now that the university graduates they hire increasingly lack basic writing and critical thinking skills.

There is much to suggest that this is largely due to universities slowly turning into white-collar trade schools, with more academic programs focusing heavily on "workplace knowledge" and having fewer arts requirments like English and philosophy.

[Lemmy]

Teaching basic writing skills isn't the universities' job. If kids are graduating without writing skills, that's on the elementary schools, not us.

[Regina]

It's not new either. Years ago I had a guy working for me that had 2 years of schooling at George Brown and another 3 years of University who left me messages like this.
Your wife foned.

[Brenda]

At least he used the right "your"...

[Gunnair]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Teaching basic writing skills isn't the universities' job. If kids are graduating without writing skills, that's on the elementary schools, not us.

Sure it is. Are you suggesting an economist with a degree that can't do simple math can lay the blame at the elementary school?

Uh...no.

[ShepherdsDog]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Teaching basic writing skills isn't the universities' job. If kids are graduating without writing skills, that's on the elementary schools, not us.

If they lack basic writing skills, then they have no place in university.

[Brenda]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Lemmy Lemmy:

Teaching basic writing skills isn't the universities' job. If kids are graduating without writing skills, that's on the elementary schools, not us.

Sure it is. Are you suggesting an economist with a degree that can't do simple math can lay the blame at the elementary school?

Uh...no.

Nah, it's the parents' fault...

[Brenda]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Lemmy Lemmy:

Teaching basic writing skills isn't the universities' job. If kids are graduating without writing skills, that's on the elementary schools, not us.

If they lack basic writing skills, then they have no place in university.

No no, can't discriminate. "They" might have dyslexia, and not admitting them when they apply would be discrimination...

[/sarcasm]

[Lemmy]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Sure it is. Are you suggesting an economist with a degree that can't do simple math can lay the blame at the elementary school?

Uh...no.

If he can't do math by the time he leaves university, that's not my fault. My job isn't to teach basic math skills. If he's able to somehow pass courses without those math skills, well, that's not my fault either, again, because my job isn't to teach basic math skills. Maybe his/her poor math skills meant he/she got 60% in my course instead of 90%.

Likewise, if he/she submits a research paper to me riddled with grammar/writing style errors, I'll deduct marks accordingly. That doesn't necessarily mean that he/she will fail that assignment. Maybe he/she will get 55%. It's still not my job to teach writing skills. They should have learned those before they got to my classroom.

Maybe universities should be doing a better job of checking those skills before offering admission. But that's not my job either. Maybe employers should be asking to see transcripts of university marks instead of just accepting that the job candidate has a degree. But the kids that are getting "A" grades (at least in my classes) DO have writing skills.

[Gunnair]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Sure it is. Are you suggesting an economist with a degree that can't do simple math can lay the blame at the elementary school?

Uh...no.

If he can't do math by the time he leaves university, that's not my fault. My job isn't to teach basic math skills. If he's able to somehow pass courses without those math skills, well, that's not my fault either, again, because my job isn't to teach basic math skills. Maybe his/her poor math skills meant he/she got 60% in my course instead of 90%.

Likewise, if he/she submits a research paper to me riddled with grammar/writing style errors, I'll deduct marks accordingly. That doesn't necessarily mean that he/she will fail that assignment. Maybe he/she will get 55%. It's still not my job to teach writing skills. They should have learned those before they got to my classroom.

Maybe universities should be doing a better job of checking those skills before offering admission. But that's not my job either. Maybe employers should be asking to see transcripts of university marks instead of just accepting that the job candidate has a degree. But the kids that are getting "A" grades (at least in my classes) DO have writing skills.

You should muse on that for a moment.

If an economist graduates Western lacking basic math skills and then presents his credentials to an employer who hires them and subsequently finds out the guy is in competent, I'm doubting the university gets a by while the elementary school gets taken to task.

[Zipperfish]

Learning writing skills is a life-long endeavour. In high school you basically just regurgitate what you've heard from your teacher using topic sentences and good spelling. In university you regurgitate what you've heard, but in such a way that both you and your professor can credibly claim that you're not just regurgitating stuff.

Seriously, I work with a lot of professionals and it's work to develop their writing skills. It's not that they're remedial, it's just that it is difficult, for example, to communicate difficult scientific concepts clearly. It's difficult to condense to two pages a file that you've been working on for five years.

(My advice to one guy who swore that he couldn't reduce five years worth of events to two pages was to reduce it to a haiku--17 syllables--that most captures it from there and then expand it to two pages.)

[martin14]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Sure it is. Are you suggesting an economist with a degree that can't do simple math can lay the blame at the elementary school?

Uh...no.

If he can't do math by the time he leaves university, that's not my fault. My job isn't to teach basic math skills. If he's able to somehow pass courses without those math skills, well, that's not my fault either, again, because my job isn't to teach basic math skills. Maybe his/her poor math skills meant he/she got 60% in my course instead of 90%.

Likewise, if he/she submits a research paper to me riddled with grammar/writing style errors, I'll deduct marks accordingly. That doesn't necessarily mean that he/she will fail that assignment. Maybe he/she will get 55%. It's still not my job to teach writing skills. They should have learned those before they got to my classroom.

Maybe universities should be doing a better job of checking those skills before offering admission. But that's not my job either. Maybe employers should be asking to see transcripts of university marks instead of just accepting that the job candidate has a degree. But the kids that are getting "A" grades (at least in my classes) DO have writing skills.

So much that " isn't my job "

What is it we pay you for exactly ?



Schools in Europe get around this problem by using their own entrance exams for admission.

Doesn't say much for the State education system though.

Maybe we should take a hint from that, rather than just passing the buck up the line.