[Blue_Nose]

Thanos Thanos:

And once again it's clearly shown that a successful argument against abortion can be made without resorting to frothing at the mouth religious nonsense.

Where is this "successful" argument you're talking about? You briefly mentioned population growth rates, but that's hardly a strong argument.

Thanos Thanos:

The fact that wiping out our replacement population forced us to accept immigration from highly undesireable states and societies speaks for itself.

You actually want our government to control which women must give birth merely to encourage population growth? This is a perverse variation of the One Child Policy.

Would you likewise promote a policy that puts pressure on married couples to have children? Let's say, you get five years after marriage to pop out a little population builder, or you get taxed. Maybe we should just go the easy route and ban contraceptives altogether. That makes as much sense as your policy, if it's truly only concerned with population growth.

Now if state interests trump personal freedom in Thanos world, that's fine, but I just can't get into the whole authoritarian thing, myself.

[Brenda]

I guess everybody knows my opinion on this

For, but with restrictions.

[Ruxpercnd]

Abortion is a tragety for Canada. Because of abortion, Canada cannot sustain it's population without immigration.

Canada's abortion rate is twice that of the U.S.. From here... it looks like Canada is suffering from depression. However, Canada's demographics are simply more European than the like the U.S.

I used to be pro-choice. Still believe that the government should not dictate what should be between a woman and her doctor. But I would like to see more thought given to discouraging abortion. What we could do is simply set up conditions that give people the confidence to raise children.

[martin14]

i think what a woman does with her body is none of my business..


It would be helpful if society arrange conditions that encourage people

to have children.

[Brenda]

$1:

Because of abortion, Canada cannot sustain it's population without immigration.

I personally think this is complete bull... That women on average don't get more than 2 children in this day and age, doesn't mean they abort allll the others they could have had before birth-control was invented.

[Blue_Nose]

Ruxpercnd Ruxpercnd:

But I would like to see more thought given to discouraging abortion. What we could do is simply set up conditions that give people the confidence to raise children.

Absolutely concur with this - I'm personally against abortion, but I can still acknowledge the freedom of others to make their own choices. I think the government's role should absolutely be to provide people with the education and facilities to deal with all (including unexpected) pregnancies.

I also think businesses should step up and take a progressive approach to dealing with pregnant employees - with the networking capabilities we have today, I think (for some jobs, anyway) parents should be able to stay at home and maintain some sort of light workload instead of simply taking off months at a time.

[Brenda]

Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:

Ruxpercnd Ruxpercnd:

But I would like to see more thought given to discouraging abortion. What we could do is simply set up conditions that give people the confidence to raise children.

Absolutely concur - I'm personally against abortion, but I can still acknowledge the freedom of others to make their own choices. I think the government's role should absolutely be to provide people with the education and facilities to deal with all (including unexpected) pregnancies.

Absolutely.

$1:

I also think businesses should step up and take a progressive approach to dealing with pregnant employees - with the networking capabilities we have today, I think (for some jobs, anyway) parents should be able to stay at home and maintain some sort of light workload instead of simply taking off months at a time.

You have a really good system here in Canada though...

Women get a year off, with 55 % pay (that is what I was told...) When I was pregnant, and had my kids, I got 16 weeks (80 % pay) and that is 6 weeks before your due-date, and 10 weeks after, and then I had the choice to go back and dump my baby with a sitter, or not go back at all.

I agree however, that working from home is something that could be expanded.

[romanP]

Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:

Thanos Thanos:

And once again it's clearly shown that a successful argument against abortion can be made without resorting to frothing at the mouth religious nonsense.

Where is this "successful" argument you're talking about? You briefly mentioned population growth rates, but that's hardly a strong argument.

Thanos Thanos:

The fact that wiping out our replacement population forced us to accept immigration from highly undesireable states and societies speaks for itself.

You actually want our government to control which women must give birth merely to encourage population growth? This is a perverse variation of the One Child Policy.

Would you likewise promote a policy that puts pressure on married couples to have children? Let's say, you get five years after marriage to pop out a little population builder, or you get taxed. Maybe we should just go the easy route and ban contraceptives altogether. That makes as much sense as your policy, if it's truly only concerned with population growth.

Now if state interests trump personal freedom in Thanos world, that's fine, but I just can't get into the whole authoritarian thing, myself.

Or we could do something really brilliant and legislate abstinence-only sex "education."

[romanP]

Ruxpercnd Ruxpercnd:

Abortion is a tragety for Canada. Because of abortion, Canada cannot sustain it's population without immigration.

Not that there's anything wrong with immigration. Why do we need to make more babies when the rest of the world has more than enough of them.

[romanP]

Ruxpercnd Ruxpercnd:

Abortion is a tragety for Canada. Because of abortion, Canada cannot sustain it's population without immigration.

Canada's abortion rate is twice that of the U.S.. From here... it looks like Canada is suffering from depression. However, Canada's demographics are simply more European than the like the U.S.

I used to be pro-choice. Still believe that the government should not dictate what should be between a woman and her doctor. But I would like to see more thought given to discouraging abortion. What we could do is simply set up conditions that give people the confidence to raise children.

It's not necessarily about confidence. I don't want any children, I think there's already enough in the world, so many that we apparently can't feed them all. The more people there are, the more unnecessary pollution and consumption there is. I think that I would probably make a decent parent, but I have no interest in creating the means to be one.

[Thanos]

romanP romanP:

I am also against the death penalty, except in cases where people think it's okay to beat up a pregnant woman. I think we should be allowed to shoot such people in the head, hopefully in such a way that they live on with part of their skull and brain missing, or bury them alive in a pit full of maggots.

Yeah, that'd be the most brutal, dark, metal thing that could happen, and actually do good for the world.

Sounds like you've come up with the cover art for the next Glenn Danzig album.

[Wally_Sconce]

Brenda Brenda:

I guess everybody knows my opinion on this

For, but with restrictions.

Me, too.

But while you tend to make posts that focus on the importance to allow abortions, I tend to make posts that focus on how we've abused it.

I keep coming back to the 43 abortions for every 100 live births in Canada. That number is disturbing. Even pro-choice advocates might want to show some compassion and concern for the way we have implemented abortion in this country.

[romanP]

Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:

I keep coming back to the 43 abortions for every 100 live births in Canada. That number is disturbing. Even pro-choice advocates might want to show some compassion and concern for the way we have implemented abortion in this country.

Compassion for what? Every one of those abortions was a choice made by the women who had them. Better that they had those abortions in a clinic, where the fact that they happened could be recorded, and the women who had them could receive councilling and medical assistance, instead of having them at home or in a back alley with a coat hanger, where we would never know and you would never care.

[Thanos]

Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:

Thanos Thanos:

And once again it's clearly shown that a successful argument against abortion can be made without resorting to frothing at the mouth religious nonsense.

Where is this "successful" argument you're talking about? You briefly mentioned population growth rates, but that's hardly a strong argument.

Thanos Thanos:

The fact that wiping out our replacement population forced us to accept immigration from highly undesireable states and societies speaks for itself.

You actually want our government to control which women must give birth merely to encourage population growth? This is a perverse variation of the One Child Policy.

Would you likewise promote a policy that puts pressure on married couples to have children? Let's say, you get five years after marriage to pop out a little population builder, or you get taxed. Maybe we should just go the easy route and ban contraceptives altogether. That makes as much sense as your policy, if it's truly only concerned with population growth.

Now if state interests trump personal freedom in Thanos world, that's fine, but I just can't get into the whole authoritarian thing, myself.

I actually said none of the things that you used as a basis for your counter-arguments. You operated on pure assumption, nothing else. This is one of the goofiest straw men arguments I've ever had anyone attempt to use against me in the past five years of me trolling through internet fight rooms.

To summarize:

1) I opposed abortion, I do not oppose other contraceptives. My error for not making that clearer.
2) I'd prefer that the state provide the resources and mechanisms that would encourage adoption over abortion. This is a far cry from forcing women to birth and care for an unwanted child.
3) The destruction of a significant portion of our replacement population led to us adopting immigration policies that are proving, over the long term, to not have been such a good idea.
4) My secular pro-life bona fides are further made credible by my stating that I am opposed to the death penalty. I remain proud that my argument never came close to relying on any sort of religious crankery.
5) Not once did I mention imposing a tyranny or going to any reverse mutation of the already perverse Chinese policy. Your use of the word authoritarian is out of bounds. And any government that made adoption over abortion in order to save the lives of children a priority would most likely only be called a tyranny by the insane.
6) Your appeal to the hysteria of the masses by using the already-discredited "out of control population growth" which, despite the propagand of the Suzuki-ites and their ilk, has never even been a problem in the history of the developed world, shows that you are relying of fantasy-land arguments rather than any sort of statistically proven fact or even anectdotal evidence.

I'm getting too old and too crabby for this sort of shit. Choose someone else as a target for the next time you decide to distort another person's argument for your own amusement. This nonsense of yours won't work on me so don't try it again.

[Dayseed]

Oh fantastic, bring out the Christians on a Sunday to start protesting abortion again. The Supreme Court has ruled it legal and unless some government wants to invoke the notwithstanding clause, it will remain legal.

Denying an abortion to a woman infringes her S. 7 rights.

How's that sitting with your religious ass Hwacky?