[westmanguy]

Hey everyone! I'm competing in this Gr. 12 ethics essay to win a $1,000. The question is: Is it OK to download music, movies, and games without paying?

My opinion is that it is morally okay to do, so.

I have some preliminary ideas outlined, but I'm wondering if anyone can throw me some good points on why it is okay to do so.

[DrCaleb]

You have not deprived anyone of the right to use the work (music, movie) because you have made a copy of it. Therefore, you have not stolen anything. You probably had no intention of buying it, so they are not out a sale.

On the other hand, it does cost money to produce things like music and movies. My morality says that if I download a movie (almost never) that I should at least rent it when it comes out, even if I didn't like it and have no intention of watching it.

[xerxes]

IMO, it's not, both legally and morally. In each of the cases you have of movies, music, and games someone, somewhere applied their creativity and talent to produce something that other will enjoy. And unless they say otherwise, to not pay for it is stealing, both legally and morally.

Thing is, because of the decentralised nature of the Internet, illegally downloading movies, TV shows, music has become so easy to do and so commonplace that no one really bats an eye anymore. And frankly, the movie studios and record companies haven't made things easier on themselves. Their refusal (at first) to embrace the new medium (and moreso, actively try to suppress it) ensured that piracy would flourish, partly as a global FU to the backwardness of the old media barons.

But the other part (like I said before) is that it's so easy to do. Hell, I download movies I don't want to pay to go see all the time (like 2012) and I'll often d/l most of a CD before I decide to buy (and yes this 26 y.o fuddy duddy still buys CD's).

Thing is, bootlegging has always been around ever since recording devices were invented. And FYI, the first illegal bootleg ever made was in the late 1920's. The industry has accepted it as a fait accompli ever since. But with the internet, it's become so widespread and so mainstream that it's just a fact of life now.

Sorry if that doesn't help with your essay Westman. Maybe, at the least, you'll some points to consider as you write.

[Bacardi4206]

No it is not ok to do so, atleast in my opinion. Despite me doing it anyways. I always pay for games because games always try there best and give out quality work for your dollar. Well atleast most of them.

Movies seem to be consisting of mostly low budget, bad quality, bad storyline, bad acting. Pretty much many things wrong with them. It is very hard to tell if a movie is even worth buying, renting or going to see. Therefor I just download and watch them. If I really like a movie, I'd go out and buy it.

However back to the point. All the companies that make movies, games, tv shows, music, etc. They invest a lot of money and time into the making of the product. Therefor downloading the product for free without there consent is not moral as you are generally stealing the product from them.

It's like if you were a kid with a lemonaide stand. You are just being introduced into the buisness world. Sort of like buisness training wheels. Atleast that's what I see of kids with lemonaide stands as that really can't be fun.

You are selling your product for 50 cents per cup. You're mom bought all the products needed for you to do this so therefor she is the investor. You yourself made the product by mixing the products needed to create the lemonaide. Some guy with a sweat tooth comes up and drinks a cup and you ask him for the 50 cents but he just walks away. Is that moral?

[Akhenaten]

In my opinion you ask yourself, "Do artists create art to make money or just for the sake of art". Answer that question and you'll anwer the other.
Anytime Lars is tired of the money he already gets, the admiration of his fans, his groupies, his fame he can always go back to university get a post secondary education and settle down to a nice brain numbing job for his living like the rest of us.

[Zipperfish]

I think by copyrioght law it's pretty clear that downloading is illegal. Anything I (as a musician and writer) create is protected by law. I don't have to take out a "copyright" on it; I don't have to pay anyone a fee; I don't have to do anything. It is protected for me because I created it. One of the protections is the exclsuive right to reproduce the work. It's esswentially granting the creator a temporary monopoly right over the work. That's the legal scenario.

If you subscribe to the notion that law is codified morality, that could also be your moral basis.

One thing you could do is imagine a society where there was no intellectual property (Ipatents, trademarks, copyrights). If you support illegal downloading, would you also support, say, a record company using a song someone had sent to them for one of their hit bands wihtout paying that person? Would knock-offs of designer products be acceptable? Would patents be allowed?

[Bodah]

I dont think its right to do so, just because technology allows you too.
Artists, muscians & game developers work hard at their craft. If you like their work you should buy it not steal it. This way your supporting these people to produce other work you may enjoy.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

[SprCForr]

There's a tax on media used to store those kinds of things. The intent IIRC was to compensate in part the artists for lost revenue. So that means every single blank CD I've used to back up reports, databases, create family photo albums and hold family movies has resulted in some artist making money they're not entitled to.

If my daughter wants to download a few songs she heard, then I'd say go for it. The bucks I've had to pay just bought all those crappy songs she wants to download.

If the creators aren't getting the cut they think they deserve from whoever they designated to collect on their behalf, then take it up with the parasites in the middle, don't go digging deeper into my pocket.

[CanadianJeff]

In my opinion if I can't find the original copy of the work in normal stores then I have no problems using whatever means I can to get a copy of the game I want to play or the song I want to listen to.

I will have a look around to see if I can buy it first through the artist or developer and this is getting easier all the time.

I do not believe in buying things out of used game bins or used movie bins because the only one making money is the reseller and the maker doesn't get a dime on the second sale. Nor will I sell any of the games or music I own to these stores for resale for this reason.

Now to turn that on it's head it's precisely because of torrents that so much music and movies and games from the 60s 70s and 80s has become widely available. Many classic black and white films never translated to dvd are easily downloadable for everyone to enjoy.

Same with games. There are many pc games made in the 90s that I grew up with that were not no longer around for sale at a later time when I had misplaced the cds or would not operate on xp or vista unless I went online and downloaded a patched version. Nowadays with the surge of digital downloading we have inspired the makers of these old titles to resell them fully operable on today's pcs at a discount price with all the money going to the artists.

Digital downloading has it's ups and downs but overall I'm glad it's out there. It creates competition and a market for past music and titles to be reintroduced to the public eye and easily accessed.

To Zipperfish and his scenario of a no patent world: If money was no longer a factor in the existence of people and their achievements do you think that knock-offs, royalty's or any of that even exist? I don't think so and if you'll forgive me the moment we forget money and live our lives towards the goal of bettering ourselves as a species the better.

[Zipperfish]

CanadianJeff wrote:

To Zipperfish and his scenario of a no patent world: If money was no longer a factor in the existence of people and their achievements do you think that knock-offs, royalty's or any of that even exist? I don't think so and if you'll forgive me the moment we forget money and live our lives towards the goal of bettering ourselves as a species the better.

Actually, you've hit upon a pet peeve of mine. As a (semi-professonal) artist myself, it's very common to run into business people who assume that the only reason I create music or short stories is to make the world a better place to live. Yes, I do think that music and literature make the world a better place, but that doesn't mean I want to do it for free.

Or bar owners whose attitude is that it's fun to play in a band, so why don't you do it for free? Well buddy--you lug out all my gear and set it up and tear down at the end of the night a few times and then come talk to me. Sheesh!
/end rant

[BluesBud]

Before I add my two cents. How much of the Grand do I get if you win?









My original two cents?

[KorbenDeck]

My take, I download the movies and if I like them I go out and get the dvd. Plus I see almost every movie that comes into theaters so I have a fairly good idea if I am planning on getting the DVD or not. Most movies I download are old movies that are near impossible to find on DVD anyways.

If I like it, I'll buy it. If its crap, they are not getting a cent from me.

[Lemmy]

Music companies spent decades ripping off fans and their own artitsts. Now the shoe's on the other foot and I have no sympathy. Bands aren't being hurt by file-sharing. Musicians have reacted to the changing realities of technology by increasing their concert ticket prices. Over the past decade, ticket prices have increased a THOUSAND percent. This means that demand for their artistic talent is stronger than ever and the bands are profiting on this. So bands ought to embrace file-sharing, as it`s made their concert tours profitable beyond their wildest dreams.

As for record companies: screw them! They had it coming.

[CanadianJeff]

You'll forgive me if I say a big hell yeah to cutting out the record companies and giving my money right to the artists.

[Zipperfish]

Lemmy wrote:

Music companies spent decades ripping off fans and their own artitsts. Now the shoe's on the other foot and I have no sympathy. Bands aren't being hurt by file-sharing. Musicians have reacted to the changing realities of technology by increasing their concert ticket prices. Over the past decade, ticket prices have increased several THOUSAND percent. This means that demand for their artistic talent is stronger than ever and the bands are profiting on this. So bands ought to embrace file-sharing, as it`s made their concert tours profitable beyond their wildest dreams.

As for record companies: screw them! They had it coming.

Justify any way you want to, buddy, but that there is the biggest pile of baloney I've seen in some time.