[Banff]

icekarma2752 icekarma2752:

Banff Banff:

icekarma2752 icekarma2752:

the only socialism i embrace is free medical care..however heres is where any "left-wing" idealism ends..you are exempt from free medical care if youre injured during the commission of committing a crime,if you do self-destructive things to yourself such as smoke,use drugs,or alcohol..you foot the bill.when some drunk idiots get into a fight..the instigator foots the bill..yes i know..the libs are going to tie into me whining about they cant afford it..well thats no problem..just garnish their welfare benefits..i dont expect the whining to end there..how can they eat if their welfare is being garnished..go through garbage bins,raid gardens..be creative dammit!!

I could agree but if you get diseases from bottom feeders you should also be exempt , or cancer from breathing our air or eating food , diabetes from eating to much sugar products , aids from your own fault from going outside and coming in contact with other human beings including influenza ....the list just doesn't stop at what is your fault and what isn't ...SIN tax payers pay bigtime , to the tune of it being federal fraud . If you don't think cancer , diabetes , aids , STDs , Norwalk , Polio , heart diease etc etc etc isn't self fault and the tax payers problem then you're wrong ! All health issues "are" equal .

Banff..i'm very well aware of the fact its not an easy call and my idea is more or less a pilot project..but lets face it..some drunk driver slams into someone..why should the tax-payers foot the bill? i guess the message i was trying to get across is a "socialist health care system" is feasible provided its run responsibly..i'm very well aware of the fact theres a lot of bugs that have to be worked out in my concept of free health care

I clearly remember having the decency to listen to the story 35 year old male who really didn't have the ability to speak clearly or fully coherently due to brain injury . He had been involved in an accident in which police were chasing a stolen car . At high speed the car slammed into a car full of teenagers both killing and injuring the occupants . His father had been supporting him since the accident . The cost to a car thief or drunk would be impossible to cover the damages to the brain injured persons life , unless the thief were rich . sooo the social system can either look at it as being there for him or believe he should have died because it is not the fault of the tax payer .

There are no bugs to work out other than who gets medical treatment before whom and how much versus how much the tax payer can afford .2 tier health care (social and private) is the only solution , but if the taxes and cost to private were much higher it will level out the quality of social health care ie if a heart operation costs say $11,000.00 it should be bumped up to $33,000.00 to provide 2 social operations yet the private service gets priority over one but not both social heart surgerys. Just my opinion .

[camerontech]

$1:

Mr Sarkozy is hated by the left as a reformer who many fear would change the French way of life by making the nation work harder and longer and by cutting back on its generous welfare state.

I read this in a british paper commentating on the French elections.

I lol'd.

shows how lazy the left is

[Brenda]

camerontech camerontech:

$1:

Mr Sarkozy is hated by the left as a reformer who many fear would change the French way of life by making the nation work harder and longer and by cutting back on its generous welfare state.

I read this in a british paper commentating on the French elections.

I lol'd.

shows how lazy the left is

Immigrants caused riots last night... Makes you wonder why...

[icekarma2752]

Banff Banff:

icekarma2752 icekarma2752:

Banff Banff:

icekarma2752 icekarma2752:

the only socialism i embrace is free medical care..however heres is where any "left-wing" idealism ends..you are exempt from free medical care if youre injured during the commission of committing a crime,if you do self-destructive things to yourself such as smoke,use drugs,or alcohol..you foot the bill.when some drunk idiots get into a fight..the instigator foots the bill..yes i know..the libs are going to tie into me whining about they cant afford it..well thats no problem..just garnish their welfare benefits..i dont expect the whining to end there..how can they eat if their welfare is being garnished..go through garbage bins,raid gardens..be creative dammit!!

I could agree but if you get diseases from bottom feeders you should also be exempt , or cancer from breathing our air or eating food , diabetes from eating to much sugar products , aids from your own fault from going outside and coming in contact with other human beings including influenza ....the list just doesn't stop at what is your fault and what isn't ...SIN tax payers pay bigtime , to the tune of it being federal fraud . If you don't think cancer , diabetes , aids , STDs , Norwalk , Polio , heart diease etc etc etc isn't self fault and the tax payers problem then you're wrong ! All health issues "are" equal .

Banff..i'm very well aware of the fact its not an easy call and my idea is more or less a pilot project..but lets face it..some drunk driver slams into someone..why should the tax-payers foot the bill? i guess the message i was trying to get across is a "socialist health care system" is feasible provided its run responsibly..i'm very well aware of the fact theres a lot of bugs that have to be worked out in my concept of free health care

I clearly remember having the decency to listen to the story 35 year old male who really didn't have the ability to speak clearly or fully coherently due to brain injury . He had been involved in an accident in which police were chasing a stolen car . At high speed the car slammed into a car full of teenagers both killing and injuring the occupants . His father had been supporting him since the accident . The cost to a car thief or drunk would be impossible to cover the damages to the brain injured persons life , unless the thief were rich . sooo the social system can either look at it as being there for him or believe he should have died because it is not the fault of the tax payer .

There are no bugs to work out other than who gets medical treatment before whom and how much versus how much the tax payer can afford .2 tier health care (social and private) is the only solution , but if the taxes and cost to private were much higher it will level out the quality of social health care ie if a heart operation costs say $11,000.00 it should be bumped up to $33,000.00 to provide 2 social operations yet the private service gets priority over one but not both social heart surgerys. Just my opinion .

and a perfectly valid opinion..but you cant make me believe that my concept has no validity and that there are most definitely some cases where tax-payers shouldnt have to foot the bill for others stupidity..i have very strong feelings about this for the simple reason i'm seeing our health care system going to hell

[george123]

Why are we saying the left is lazy? I have left leanings and I am not lazy. I also have right leanings and I am not a pig-headed moron like Anne Colter. What I said before, balance is necesary, rings true through to here. I believe in healthcare, universal health care. I also believe that those with the money should pay a small premium for it, like we do in Alberta here. It does not go up or down with how much you make, it is the same for everyone who can afford it. That makes it sustainable, or at least a little more than it was.

Examples like this, marrying the two systems together to get the best possible effect, is what will make this country a great place. Think things through, plan ahead, and be flexible when a monkeywrench is thrown into things.

The left is not lazy, the right is not inflexible, we just have a small minority of each. Human nature is to minimise the positive and exagerate the negative. Let's try to not get stuck in this mindframe, and not label entire groups based on a few individuals.

Let's just label the individuals.

[Brenda]

george123 george123:

Why are we saying the left is lazy? I have left leanings and I am not lazy. I also have right leanings and I am not a pig-headed moron like Anne Colter. What I said before, balance is necesary, rings true through to here. I believe in healthcare, universal health care. I also believe that those with the money should pay a small premium for it, like we do in Alberta here. It does not go up or down with how much you make, it is the same for everyone who can afford it. That makes it sustainable, or at least a little more than it was.

Examples like this, marrying the two systems together to get the best possible effect, is what will make this country a great place. Think things through, plan ahead, and be flexible when a monkeywrench is thrown into things.

The left is not lazy, the right is not inflexible, we just have a small minority of each. Human nature is to minimise the positive and exagerate the negative. Let's try to not get stuck in this mindframe, and not label entire groups based on a few individuals.

Let's just label the individuals.

I think you lack European political knowledge here. I assume you react to Icekarma telling about Sarkozy, who won the French elections? European politics are not the same as Canadian.

[Banff]

DBL post edit

[george123]

That's true, I don't know too much about European politics, but politics is almost universal, it just depends on how many players there are. Europe has a lot of players.

What I am reacting to is the fact that all left-leaners are being labeled as lazy, and all right-leaners are looked at as intractible red-neck pricks. Both are not true of the entire group they belong to. There are examples of both in both groups, and the majority of both groups are decent, hard working folk. That is what I am saying.

[Banff]

IceKarma;

OK you have my fullest respect , and it would be hard to argue your point , simply because it's true . Standard and Universal has to be considered regardless how you or I choose to look at it , as long as you and I agree there is a solution and not just a bunch of circumstantial tainted hope for something all Canadians value . Noone seems to want to get along ...sigh

[Brenda]

I agree on that one, but don't forget, that you can actually live on welfare in Western-Europe, and just stop pay taxes. So why work anyway? I think that makes a big difference...

[george123]

Really? But how many people do that, though. I would not, period. I didn't get a free ride in life, and I don't want one. Unless I win the lottery, that is. Even then, I'd get a job at Mc Donald's or something or I would go stir-crazy. I want to work, I have things I want to accomplish and goals I have set.

Of course, there are lazy people out there. It will always be the case. But how many people in Western Europe acctualy live on the wellfare?

[Scrappy]

Brenda Brenda:

I agree on that one, but don't forget, that you can actually live on welfare in Western-Europe, and just stop pay taxes. So why work anyway? I think that makes a big difference...

Bang on Brenda.

George entire communities (three generation now) are on welfare it's not one family in an apartment building we are talking about, thousands and thousands of young men who don't work in closed communities. Why because they choose not to, healthy men and women who choose a welfare life style and they passed it on to their children and now the cycle is starting again.

[george123]

Yes, but is there any proof of that for me to read. I'm sorry if I seem sceptical or hard-nosed here, but it is such an alien idea for me. I need to read it.

[Brenda]

george123 george123:

Really? But how many people do that, though. I would not, period. I didn't get a free ride in life, and I don't want one. Unless I win the lottery, that is. Even then, I'd get a job at Mc Donald's or something or I would go stir-crazy. I want to work, I have things I want to accomplish and goals I have set.

Of course, there are lazy people out there. It will always be the case. But how many people in Western Europe acctualy live on the wellfare?

A lot of people do it. It is the easy way out. Get married, a kid and a divorce, and you know for sure you don't have to APPLY for a job untill your kid is 5. Then it goes to school, so you can work during the time your kid goes to school. How many divorced women do you think are on welfare here? Remember, you only have to APPLY, not GET HIRED.

When on welfare, you don't pay property taxes, you get a rent-subsidy, you have a tax break for your medical insurace. You can better be out of a job and on welfare, then work at McDonalds... You'll make more on welfare...

Immigrants are immediatly directed to social services, and get on welfare. That's why they rioted in France. With Sarkozy, they will get a cut back, and rules to live by.

So "socialists" want the working class to pay for the low-lifes, who just will not work for their money.

Understand why I'm leaning very strongly to the right side here?

[Brenda]

george123 george123:

Yes, but is there any proof of that for me to read. I'm sorry if I seem sceptical or hard-nosed here, but it is such an alien idea for me. I need to read it.

Well, if you can read Dutch, I got a lot of info for ya