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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:42 pm
 


Brenda, good post, but you, Wil and hwanker are missing the author's point, which wasn't meant to be disrespectful of veterans but simply pointed out how their lives would have been better had they been spared the horrors of war.

Considering that 28% of Canadian soldiers are coming back from Afghanistan - compared to the World Wars, a relatively low-intensity conflict - with problems like PTSD, it is entirely reasonable to argue that veterans' lives are negatively impacted by their wartime experiences.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:43 pm
 


Brenda Brenda:
Neither did the people who hid the jews in WWII... Where their lives lessened?


For having seen things they had to see? Absolutely. Are you arguing that "people who hid the jews" have had their lives improved by having to have done that? I'd guess that they'd prefer that none of it occurred in the first place.

$1:
What better things? What things should you be doing now, other then you are doing? You are doing the best you can, I assume. So did they.


What better things? Rather than being stuck in Europe fighting a WAR? You can't be serious. But I'll give you one anyway. At home with the family.

$1:
It was not lessened.


Well, I guess that's settled then.

$1:
No, war is not cool. War sucks. But thanks to grandfathers like his, he had a better life, and so do I. Don't forget that.


Where did I indicate that I was forgetting that? I knew this thread would be kindling for people looking to turn this into an anti-soldier attack.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:53 pm
 


$1:
Are you arguing that "people who hid the jews" have had their lives improved by having to have done that?


Yes, that is what I say. Some great friendships came out of it, that still are going on after generations. People they wouldn't have met otherways.

Of course it would have been better if the war hadn't happened, but don't blame that on the people who tried to make the best of the situation then. Blame that war on the Nazi's, or more, that moron Hitler and his friends.

$1:
What better things? Rather than being stuck in Europe fighting a WAR? You can't be serious. But I'll give you one anyway. At home with the family.


And leave Europe stuck in the war. Okay. Thanks.

$1:
Where did I indicate that I was forgetting that? I knew this thread would be kindling for people looking to turn this into an anti-soldier attack.


Not an anti soldier attack. Just the wrong place and the wrong time, that's all.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:54 pm
 


WDHIII WDHIII:
Streaker Streaker:
Brenda, good post, but you, Wil and hwanker are missing the author's point, which wasn't meant to be disrespectful of veterans but simply pointed out how their lives would have been better had they been spared the horrors of war.

Considering that 28% of Canadian soldiers are coming back from Afghanistan - compared to the World Wars, a relatively low-intensity conflict - with problems like PTSD, it is entirely reasonable to argue that veterans' lives are negatively impacted by their wartime experiences.


And had they been spared the "horrors of war"...... where would we be now? :wink: Theres was a RESPONSE... not an act of aggression


Of course, I'm not saying that WWII wasn't worth fighting, but if we lose our critical faculties we'll end up blundering into more dumb, pointlessly wasteful wars, like WWI.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:57 pm
 


Streaker Streaker:
Of course, I'm not saying that WWII wasn't worth fighting, but if we lose our critical faculties we'll end up blundering into more dumb, pointlessly wasteful wars, like WWI.


Nah, WWI was most definitely the last dumb, pointlessly wasteful war. I think.


Last edited by neopundit on Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:58 pm
 


Streaker Streaker:
Brenda, good post, but you, Wil and hwanker are missing the author's point, which wasn't meant to be disrespectful of veterans but simply pointed out how their lives would have been better had they been spared the horrors of war.

Considering that 28% of Canadian soldiers are coming back from Afghanistan - compared to the World Wars, a relatively low-intensity conflict - with problems like PTSD, it is entirely reasonable to argue that veterans' lives are negatively impacted by their wartime experiences.


Oh I know. I know a few Srebrenica-soldiers who didn't come home in the same psycological state as they left in. But I also happen to know people who have been to Iraq, and Srebrenica, and are doing fine.

You (we) just don't know what they would have been like if it all didn't happen.

I just think there is a time and place for everything, and this is not the time to do this.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:10 pm
 


Brenda Brenda:
I just think there is a time and place for everything, and this is not the time to do this.


On the contrary, there is no better time than the present to discuss how we commemorate our fallen soldiers and what Remembrance Day should mean to us.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:18 pm
 


Well, I think we might as well agree on disagreeing then ;-)


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:05 pm
 


It would be wonderful if all of the conflicts of past, present and future could have been or will be resolved by diplomatic means and not in loss of life. We all are aware that that is not always possible.

Streaker, you made a good point in that the battles and wars fought for the right to show your freedom to make your points known and speak your mind. On Nov 11 please remember the reason you can do so is the sacrifice of those remembered on the day. No one says you must wear a red poppy on Remembrance Day but please do understand what the day is about. Not to give a sense of glory or to celebrate war. It is for those on all sides that went to war, fought for their cause or against oppression. To honor those that returned and those that gave their life and limb. To show the families of those soldiers that they are not the only ones that remember what they did for their countries and freedom.

I agree with the rest that Nov 11 is a time for Red Poppies. However whether I agree with you or not I will fight to the death for you to have the right to where any colour you like. Buy a red poppy for the reasons I have said here. You don't have to wear it. Wear what ever colour you wish, but please don't do it to dis-honor those that have given you the right to do so.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:06 pm
 


Brenda Brenda:
Well, I think we might as well agree on disagreeing then ;-)


If you want we can talk more about it on Monday. :wink:


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:11 pm
 


BluesBud BluesBud:
It would be wonderful if all of the conflicts of past, present and future could have been or will be resolved by diplomatic means and not in loss of life. We all are aware that that is not always possible.

Streaker, you made a good point in that the battles and wars fought for the right to show your freedom to make your points known and speak your mind. On Nov 11 please remember the reason you can do so is the sacrifice of those remembered on the day. No one says you must wear a red poppy on Remembrance Day but please do understand what the day is about. Not to give a sense of glory or to celebrate war. It is for those on all sides that went to war, fought for their cause or against oppression. To honor those that returned and those that gave their life and limb. To show the families of those soldiers that they are not the only ones that remember what they did for their countries and freedom.

I agree with the rest that Nov 11 is a time for Red Poppies. However whether I agree with you or not I will fight to the death for you to have the right to where any colour you like. Buy a red poppy for the reasons I have said here. You don't have to wear it. Wear what ever colour you wish, but please don't do it to dis-honor those that have given you the right to do so.


Good words, BB, but I won't be wearing a red poppy again - after reading how the Legion threatened legal action against a shop selling white poppies it won't be getting any more dough from me.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:19 pm
 


Streaker Streaker:
BluesBud BluesBud:
It would be wonderful if all of the conflicts of past, present and future could have been or will be resolved by diplomatic means and not in loss of life. We all are aware that that is not always possible.

Streaker, you made a good point in that the battles and wars fought for the right to show your freedom to make your points known and speak your mind. On Nov 11 please remember the reason you can do so is the sacrifice of those remembered on the day. No one says you must wear a red poppy on Remembrance Day but please do understand what the day is about. Not to give a sense of glory or to celebrate war. It is for those on all sides that went to war, fought for their cause or against oppression. To honor those that returned and those that gave their life and limb. To show the families of those soldiers that they are not the only ones that remember what they did for their countries and freedom.

I agree with the rest that Nov 11 is a time for Red Poppies. However whether I agree with you or not I will fight to the death for you to have the right to where any colour you like. Buy a red poppy for the reasons I have said here. You don't have to wear it. Wear what ever colour you wish, but please don't do it to dis-honor those that have given you the right to do so.


Good words, BB, but I won't be wearing a red poppy again - after reading how the Legion threatened legal action against a shop selling white poppies it won't be getting any more dough from me.


You can make one yourself...

I don't think (well, I hope it isn't...) it is a token of sponsoring :?

As I understand, it is a token of respect to the soldiers, fallen or home safe, to remember what they did.

Not to get cash :?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:30 pm
 


What I was saying was it is more important to remember the reason for the day and not to protest it by wearing something else. Whether it is being done on purpose or as a point being made for an other reason, mis-understandings could be made. It could be seen as a dis-honor to those being recognized. That is what has some getting steamed here.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:52 pm
 


I have never seen a person wearing a white poppy, the first one I see will never wish he wore it.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:57 pm
 


Oh look, another keyboard tough guy.


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