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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:01 am
 


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In fact, he has been speaking about this for some time - since before he announced his run for the leadership - and his position is interesting. At the final Grit debate in Montreal, in his closing remarks in French, Trudeau articulated it more forcefully and bluntly than he has in the past. Much is lost in translation. The crux though, is that Canada has been "buying" Quebecers off for the past 30 years; that this pattern is outdated and insulting; and that Quebecers are secure enough now in their culture and language to embrace Canada without calculation or equivocation.

Compare this to what Harper's Conservatives say about Quebec: Nothing. Having tried and failed to ingratiate themselves with the "Quebec-as-nation" gambit in 2006, then been laughed out of the province in 2008 by folksinger Michel Rivard's acerbic video send-up of their cuts to arts funding, the Conservatives have given up on Quebec. Mulcair, however, has much to say: He wants the federal Clarity Act rewritten to allow for separation following a referendum vote of 50 per cent, plus one. And he has said, as recently as last year, speaking of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, that "New Democrats will continue to work to ensure that one day it becomes part of a Constitution that includes us all."

Coincidentally, Quebec's new Liberal leader, Philippe Couil-lard, has a similar view. He wants Quebec's signature on the Constitution by 2017. Now, it does not take a savant to read those tea leaves: Either Parti Quebecois Premier Pauline Marois, with a majority, or Couillard, will be soon be burning up the highway between Quebec City and Ottawa with their lists of urgent demands and grievances in hand. Trudeau, for now, is the only federal politician to have forcefully articulated a position on how Ottawa could respond in the national interest. Harper is too weak in Quebec to break any new ground. Mulcair is too beholden to soft-nationalists in his ranks, and threatened by the Bloc Quebecois, to do much but pander.

Now examine the other major fork in the road facing Canadians, to the west: Resources. The Harper government's stance amounts to forcefully articulated extractivism: Pull the bitumen and other goodies from the ground as quickly as possible and get them to market. Mulcair is at the opposite end of that discussion. Trudeau has placed himself squarely between the two: "Pipeline, sure, but not there," he said some time back, in response to Gateway. He's in favour of Keystone XL. Saturday in Montreal, Trudeau restated what will be one of his mantras in 2015: Rather than choose between the environment and the economy, embrace both. Coincidentally, that is also the position of the Premier of Alberta and the vast majority of senior executives in the oilpatch.

There's more: Trudeau is the only non-Conservative Canadian politician, except perhaps for NDP rogue Bruce Hyer, now an independent, ever to have said on the record that the federal long gun registry was "a failure." (Though he later, regretfully, backpedalled.) That's not controversial in rural, western and northern Canada: It's just the truth. Trudeau's proposed reform of riding nominations - every candidate must win the nomination fair and square, no appointments, no gender-based quotas, no "star" candidates parachuted in from above - subverts his own party's longstanding practice. Would it be a good idea for that to become standard practice? By the same token, would it be healthy for Canada if the other two major national party leaders spoke blunt truths to Quebec soft nationalists, or took a balanced, pragmatic approach to resource extraction?

The answer, I think many fair-minded people would agree, is yes. One does not have to personally like or dislike Trudeau, to accept this: He has taken some important and clear positions, for which there is a constituency in the country. In addition to so-called charisma, it explains why he's raising so much money.


Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Trudea ... z2OcvTNSQo


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:05 am
 


While I hope that's what JT has said because I think he's bang-on, I'd like to see the actual quote in the context in which they were made.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:52 am
 


He is a very intelligent young man. I think he will make an excellent Prime Minister, Canada is lucky to have him.





PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:20 am
 


andyt wrote:
Quote:
in his closing remarks in French, The crux though, is that Canada has been "buying" Quebecers off for the past 30 years; that this pattern is outdated and insulting; and that Quebecers are secure enough now in their culture and language to embrace Canada without calculation or equivocation.



If thats the case Justin it Kinda makes one wonder why the need for a continuation of bill101,language police and the new beefed up bill101 called bill14.I dont get the impression Quebec will ever embrace Canada or its culture until every last Anglo has been assimilated or forced to leave and Quebec has separated from Canada, then the Francophone government will erect a few museums to celebrate the English culture that was once a flourishing part of Quebecs culture, but for some the question will remain,why did all those Anglos leave?.


Last edited by jambo101 on Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:44 am
 


matwilson wrote:
He is a very intelligent young man. I think he will make an excellent Prime Minister, Canada is lucky to have him.


He won't be Prime Minister anytime soon. He needs to become more seasoned before the whole country takes him seriously. Besides, his first priority (if elected Liberal party leader) would be to bring the party back from third party status and reform how they carry out their business before getting too ahead of himself. It would be arrogant and selfish of him to put himself before the good of his own party. He can win his riding with thousands of votes, but if the rest of his party's candidates tank, then little has been accomplished.

Besides....an unstable left-wing government is not what we need right now. We're doing pretty good, save the odd speed bump here and there. Let's not ruin anything prematurely.

-J.





PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:57 am
 


Keep telling yourself that. :rock:

Liberals sweep past Tories in latest poll — even without Trudeau as leader, as NDP heads for disaster
Quote:
The Liberals have swept past the Conservatives in popularity, according to a new poll, with Canadians now clearly preferring a Grit government — even without Justin Trudeau as leader.

But with the long-expected coronation of Trudeau now less than 10-days away, the Forum Poll for the National Post finds the Liberals would win a clear majority with the Montreal MP as its figurehead.

The numbers show 33% of respondents would vote for the Liberal Party under outgoing leader Bob Rae, compared to 29% for Stephen Harper’s Conservatives. The Official Opposition NDP garners 25% support, while the Greens trail far behind at 6%.

While those figures would lead to an election that’s too close to call, the results change significantly when respondents are asked to picture Trudeau as the leader of the Liberals. Under such a (virtually certain) scenario, the Liberals win 40% support to the Conservatives 28%.

Even more troubling for Harper are key numbers showing the shaggy-haired son of Pierre Trudeau winning his core support from older Canadians, with the Liberals taking 45% of the 55-64 vote and 47% of the 65+ vote under his leadership.

The poll also found the Prime Minister’s personal popularity is anemic, with Harper measuring a dismal -30 favourable rating (approval rating minus disapproval.)

Rae meanwhile, will leave the Liberal leadership as the most popular leader in the country with a +12 favourable rating while Mulcair continues to find it hard to fill Jack Layton’s shoes and sits with a +2 rating.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:02 am
 


The only polls that matter are the ones on election day. However, seeing as how you only see what you want to see, who am I to stop you? :roll:

-J.

P.S. You take bait so well, I might have to bring my fishing rod and tackle box when I visit you next :lol:





PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:18 am
 


Quote:
He needs to become more seasoned before the whole country takes him seriously. Besides, his first priority (if elected Liberal party leader) would be to bring the party back from third party status and reform how they carry out their business before getting too ahead of himself.


The poll shows the opposite of what you say. Canadians have seen Harper attack Liberal policies for years now, only to adopt them typically a year later. Time and time again.

F-35 cancellation, withdrawal from Afghanistan, stimulus spending.. The list goes on.

Canadians will realize they should elect Liberals and get these things done without the delays, and the right wing nuttery on gay rights, abortion, mandatory minimums for marijuana, etc.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:20 am
 


OnTheIce wrote:
While I hope that's what JT has said because I think he's bang-on, I'd like to see the actual quote in the context in which they were made.


Ditto. If there was a soundbite or actual quote of where and why this was said, it could be influential in my decision-making process.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:37 am
 


I know, because it's so hard to find a quote.
Quote:
Trudeau used his closing remarks at the leadership debate in Montreal to lash back.”For far too long we’ve tried to buy Quebec, to buy them off rather than to get them involved,” he said.
http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/04/06/how-justin-trudeau-performs-when-tested-the-coronation-route-revisited/

Quote:
Trudeau used his closing statement to reject the notion that special gestures are needed to placate Quebec.

"We've been doing that for 30 years and I think that we have to really now admit it doesn't work," he said.

"For far too long we've tried to buy Quebec, to buy them off rather than to get them involved ... This is our real challenge. How are we going to bring everybody together and set aside old squabbles and quarrels?"
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/03/29 ... 78965.html





PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:07 am
 


andyt wrote:
I know, because it's so hard to find a quote.
Quote:
Trudeau used his closing remarks at the leadership debate in Montreal to lash back.”For far too long we’ve tried to buy Quebec, to buy them off rather than to get them involved,” he said.
http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/04/06/how-justin-trudeau-performs-when-tested-the-coronation-route-revisited/

Quote:
Trudeau used his closing statement to reject the notion that special gestures are needed to placate Quebec.

"We've been doing that for 30 years and I think that we have to really now admit it doesn't work," he said.

"For far too long we've tried to buy Quebec, to buy them off rather than to get them involved ... This is our real challenge. How are we going to bring everybody together and set aside old squabbles and quarrels?"
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/03/29 ... 78965.html




Wasn't that hard.. Youtube search: Trudeau Leadership Quebec


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:12 am
 


Curtman wrote:
andyt wrote:
I know, because it's so hard to find a quote.
Quote:
Trudeau used his closing remarks at the leadership debate in Montreal to lash back.”For far too long we’ve tried to buy Quebec, to buy them off rather than to get them involved,” he said.
http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/04/06/how-justin-trudeau-performs-when-tested-the-coronation-route-revisited/

Quote:
Trudeau used his closing statement to reject the notion that special gestures are needed to placate Quebec.

"We've been doing that for 30 years and I think that we have to really now admit it doesn't work," he said.

"For far too long we've tried to buy Quebec, to buy them off rather than to get them involved ... This is our real challenge. How are we going to bring everybody together and set aside old squabbles and quarrels?"
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/03/29 ... 78965.html




Well that's interesting. Different from what I expected, I figured a bit more separatist pandering. Thank you Andy, Curt.



As an aside, it's up to you to bring substance to your claims in an argument or debate, not up to me to find them.


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