[andyt]

Wow. Right here in New York City. Wouldn't surprise me we have it in Canada too.


http://ca.shine.yahoo.com/-unorthodox-- ... 20209.html

Quote:

Growing up, Deborah Feldman had to wear skirts that covered her ankles and high-necked blouses made of woven fabric so they wouldn't cling to her body. She wasn't allowed to read books in English because her grandfather, with whom she lived, said they were written in an "impure language." When she was twelve, she suffered a sexual assault, which she kept hidden because she had been taught that men's lust was ungovernable. This was supposedly the reason her world was segregated by gender.
Related: Bald Willow Smith: What would you do if your daughter shaved her head?
At 17, Feldman's grandparents pushed her into an arranged marriage with a virtual stranger, but she had never even heard the word "sex" spoken or learned about the very basics of human reproduction. Once married, she was expected to shave her head and wear a wig—something she rebelled against after a year because she found it so depressing. Seven years later, despite the fact she knew she would be hated as a pariah, she abandoned her community and started life over.
You might be surprised that Feldman didn't grow up in a far away country with repressive laws against women, but in an ultra-conservative Jewish enclave in New York City. "They've passed more laws from out of nowhere, limiting women—there's a rule that women can't be on the street after a certain hour," Feldman told the New York Post describing the Hasidic Satmar community in which she was raised. "We all hear these stories about Muslim extremists; how is this any better? This is just another example of extreme fundamentalism."
Feldman explained the roots of Satmar Hasidism to the Daily Mail. She describes a Jewish sect that has largely turned its back on the modern word, which she says is, "a reaction to the atrocities of Holocaust." Most of the members are descendants of Holocaust survivors who fled from Hungary and Romania during the Second World War. She continues, "Hasidic Jews in America eagerly returned to a heritage that had been on the verge of disappearing, donning traditional dress and speaking only in Yiddish, as their ancestors had done." The community emphasizes family life and reproduction in order to, as Feldman puts it, "replace the many who had perished and to swell their ranks once more. To this day, Hasidic communities continue to grow rapidly, in what is seen as the ultimate revenge against Hitler." Deborah chronicles her journey from her repressive childhood in
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a tight-knit section of Williamsburg, Brooklyn to finding the courage as a young woman to leave it all behind in her upcoming memoir, "Unorthodox: The Scandalous Rejection of My Hasidic Roots."

Deborah chronicles her journey from her repressive childhood.
In her book, Feldman describes a community that had become so oppressive and insular that paradoxically, it put its children at risk. "There was this old man on my street who, every day on my way to school, would be sitting on this bench, and would call out to me and offer me candy," Feldman told the Post. "I told my grandfather, and he said, 'Well, he's older than you, so you have to talk to him out of respect.' The guy was, like, a pedophile," Feldman continues. "And we were taught to respect him." As a kid, she was told all outsiders hated her, and that if she spoke to anyone non-Hasidic, she "risked getting kidnapped and chopped to pieces."
It was concern for her own young son that ultimately pushed her to escape. She writes about a "lackadaisical" attitude toward health and safety fueled by the idea that "God will protect you." One night, speeding down the highway on thin tires she got into an accident and her car flipped three times. She says that no one ever made kids wear seat belts. She realized that her son would have been killed if he had been with her. She had been asking her husband to change the tires for months and when he met her at the hospital, she announced that she was leaving.
Feldman was enrolled part-time at Sarah Lawrence College and a classmate took her in. In fact, in one of her history classes, while studying the art of the memoir, a seed was planted that "one person can make history." From that moment she thought, "I might be able to make a mark or have my voice heard."
She says she is an outcast now and that her family sends her hate mail. "They want me to commit suicide," she told the Post. Her husband has been pushed to the fringes of the group. Feldman says he's less religious now and has trimmed his beard short and wears jeans. They share custody of their five-year-old son.
Although she made the break with her community two years ago, Feldman says she's still "very careful" and hides her address. She calls her book a kind of insurance policy against being harmed by her relatives because "they are terrified of their having their actions become public." Nevertheless, Feldman herself is moving toward forgiveness. In "Unorthodox," she writes of her grandmother, "I'd like to hold her responsible for everything I went through…but I am too wise for that. I know the way of our world, and the way people get swept along in the powerful current of our age-old traditions."

[GreenTiger]

Yes indeed, there is a group like that in Lakewood, New Jersey.

[andyt]

I knew the ultra orthodox existed, I just didn't realize how crazy they were.

[BartSimpson]

Ultra-orthodox *anything* pose a problem. Fortunately, in most religions these nutbars are a scant minority.

The folks I've met in the IDF look at the Jewish Orthodox-extremists as first-class cowards who refuse military service but then have no problem beating up little girls who don't wear the exact clothes these vermin demand that they wear.

FWIW, I'd be fine putting these vermin in with the fundie Muslims and the Westboro bunch and letting them kill each other. No loss either way.

[andyt]

Actually these guys represent a real problem. We've been accommodating them for years, including allowing Jewish courts. So when we started getting more Muslim immigrants, they rightfully asked why they can't have Sharia as well. We also had that flap where the orthodox asked a YWCA to cover up their windows because they were offended by seeing women in exercise gear.

That's the problem with saying they're just a small minority, when all of a sudden a larger group that we do have concerns about wants the same deal. Same with the Hutterites in Alberta that didn't have to have pics on their licenses.

[Brenda]

Can we ask them to shave off their ugly beards and actually go to a barber once and a while, and when we do, will they listen or yell "FREEDOM OF RELIGION!!"

Training in exercise gear is freedom of expression. They should have been told to go f*ck themselves...

[GreenTiger]

What gets real irritating is that when you deal with these folks and their condescending attitudes. What is interesting is that a lot of Jewish people who find these people a collosal pain.

I feel for this woman and am glad she was able to escape and join the 21 century.

[Brenda]

GreenTiger wrote:

What is interesting is that a lot of Jewish people who find these people a collosal pain.

Against common beliefs, that is the same with Muslims...

Quote:

I feel for this woman and am glad she was able to escape and join the 21 century.

[jeff744]

BartSimpson wrote:

Ultra-orthodox *anything* pose a problem. Fortunately, in most religions these nutbars are a scant minority.

The folks I've met in the IDF look at the Jewish Orthodox-extremists as first-class cowards who refuse military service but then have no problem beating up little girls who don't wear the exact clothes these vermin demand that they wear.

FWIW, I'd be fine putting these vermin in with the fundie Muslims and the Westboro bunch and letting them kill each other. No loss either way.

In West Bank the military actually has to protect Palestinian children from extremist settlers, otherwise the children would be beaten to the point they end up in a hospital (apparently the settlers have beaten aid workers that were escorting the children to the point they ended up in a hospital). You know there is a problem when the military is spending their time protecting the Palestinians from settlers.

Source: Aid worker that has witnessed it first hand and gave a lecture in university

[Psudo]

I think the problem is extremism, not orthodoxy. Obviously her upbringing was atrocious, but aren't the nature of the principles more at fault than the strictness of the community's adherence to those principles? If baseline respect for cultural difference were one of the principles, such isolationist paranoia cannot be orthodox, for example.

[martin14]

BartSimpson wrote:

FWIW, I'd be fine putting these vermin in with the fundie Muslims and the Westboro bunch and letting them kill each other. No loss either way.

Cage Match !!!

[sandorski]

Psudo wrote:

I think the problem is extremism, not orthodoxy. Obviously her upbringing was atrocious, but aren't the nature of the principles more at fault than the strictness of the community's adherence to those principles? If baseline respect for cultural difference were one of the principles, such isolationist paranoia cannot be orthodox, for example.

The problem is the same concerning all Religion, Fundamentalist/Orthodox/Extreme or even Moderate. The Assumptions required to accept the premise of Religion allows the Follower to come to accept a whole range of completely unfounded Practices/Beliefs. Some will always gravitate to Extremism, mainly to address their own perceived shortcomings and use the old "I'm better than X" as an ego crutch. Although this doesn't require Religion, ancient Religious texts contain way too many examples of clearly Immoral/Tragic justifications for atrocities to prevent future 9/11s, Inquisitions, and the like.

Religion is a ticking time bomb.

[BartSimpson]

sandorski wrote:

Psudo wrote:

I think the problem is extremism, not orthodoxy. Obviously her upbringing was atrocious, but aren't the nature of the principles more at fault than the strictness of the community's adherence to those principles? If baseline respect for cultural difference were one of the principles, such isolationist paranoia cannot be orthodox, for example.

The problem is the same concerning all Religion

No, the problem is the same including people. Secular humanist extremists are just as crazed about their cause as are any other stripe of extremists.

While I concede that religious fervor is frequently a source of bloodletting the fact remains that the worst abbatoirs of the past 100 years were the creations of atheists and worshippers of the state.

[jeff744]

BartSimpson wrote:

sandorski wrote:

Psudo wrote:

I think the problem is extremism, not orthodoxy. Obviously her upbringing was atrocious, but aren't the nature of the principles more at fault than the strictness of the community's adherence to those principles? If baseline respect for cultural difference were one of the principles, such isolationist paranoia cannot be orthodox, for example.

The problem is the same concerning all Religion

No, the problem is the same including people. Secular humanist extremists are just as crazed about their cause as are any other stripe of extremists.

While I concede that religious fervor is frequently a source of bloodletting the fact remains that the worst abbatoirs of the past 100 years were the creations of atheists and worshippers of the state.

I would much rather have a state which can and do change than a static religion leading people. At least non religious states learn from past errors, religious states just say god wasn't with them this time but will be the next time, all you need for proof of that is the thousands of years of religious wars while non religious wars are steadily dying off.

[sandorski]

BartSimpson wrote:

sandorski wrote:

Psudo wrote:

I think the problem is extremism, not orthodoxy. Obviously her upbringing was atrocious, but aren't the nature of the principles more at fault than the strictness of the community's adherence to those principles? If baseline respect for cultural difference were one of the principles, such isolationist paranoia cannot be orthodox, for example.

The problem is the same concerning all Religion

No, the problem is the same including people. Secular humanist extremists are just as crazed about their cause as are any other stripe of extremists.

While I concede that religious fervor is frequently a source of bloodletting the fact remains that the worst abbatoirs of the past 100 years were the creations of atheists and worshippers of the state.

The problem is right there in your Bible. "God", apparently, doesn't mind Genocide or Stoning your Daughter to death for refusing to Marry the man who raped her. Oh wait, did I say "doesn't mind"? Sorry, "Clearly commands" is what I should have stated earlier. My bad.