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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:25 pm
 


Discussing with my superior, not peer, Firecat in the thread 'Dion's famous first words' I was reminded of the frat party song we sang after beers made us love each other a lot. It goes:
Quote:
For your friends are my friends,
and my friends are your friends,
The more we are together
The merrier we'll be!

Now, that is just in case some of our multi-cultural colleagues wonder where the title came from.

But they do not have to wonder WHY the title, if the read the following exchange between myself and said poster Firecat:
Always4Iggy wrote:
Let me frame the questions again for you: What influenced you to switch loyalties from Kennedy to Dion?

Firecat wrote:
The mere fact that I fly both Liberal and NDP flags pretty much explains my support for Kennedy and then Dion, and why I am a Liberal Party member in the first place. I am of Quebec descent and am a federalist, so Dion earned a lot of my respect. My particular desire to see universal state-funded higher education made Kennedy's appeal that much stronger for me.
I switched allegiance away from Kennedy for the purposes of the convention because he dropped out. I then accepted Dion as my preffered choice of the remaining candidates - without wasting time complaining that Kennedy was out.
Well, said poster Firecat and me have common ground on a lot of issues, including expectation of very high integrity in the party top brass.

But in this thread I have a perfectly non controversial topic, namely:

Did said candidate Kennedy drop off correctly, or did he make a mistake?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:33 pm
 


Hindsight is always 20/20, eh? Kennedy should have waited another ballot.

Supposedly a few Kennedy supporters had a soft spot for Martha and decided to vote for her on the first ballot, enough for Dion to sneak ahead of Kennedy.

Had it been otherwise, Kennedy might well have won the leadership of the party.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:39 pm
 


But before we go on, a quick aside. If Firecat is of Quebec descent and a federalist, then of all of us, he should have been the first to be troubled by the following facts.

In the days before the convention, the Bloc proposed a motion regarding the status of Quebec. Harper responded with a counter motion, recognising Quebec as a nation, but within Canada. Harper cleverly got Dion to endorse the motion, in fact that simple soul proudly called himself the author of it!

Of course, the conservatives were terribly afraid of Iggy, and wanted a safe leader to oppose them in the next election.Now, Harper had made two neat moves.

First of all, he ensured Liberal support.

Secondly he advertised Dion as the best leader to handle Quebec.

But Gerard Kennedy opposed the motion, thereby distancing himself from Dion. How exactly Firecat handled this falling apart among his friends would be interesting to speculate, but it is obvious that till the sudden move of Kennedy on the convention floor, there was no similarity in their platforms at all.

Your friends, in this case, were not my friends. So the jump by Kennedy was probably for reasons best left unspecified.

But to get back to our topic, did Kennedy jump at the correct moment?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:41 pm
 


Streaker wrote:
Hindsight is always 20/20, eh? Kennedy should have waited another ballot.

Supposedly a few Kennedy supporters had a soft spot for Martha and decided to vote for her on the first ballot, enough for Dion to sneak ahead of Kennedy.

Had it been otherwise, Kennedy might well have won the leadership of the party.

Thankfully, Streaker, my points are not based on hindsight, but on what numbers were with Kennedy when he moved!

Also, I think the story of his candidates voting for Martha is not substantiated by the numbers.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:49 pm
 


Harper is evil.

That prick.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:51 pm
 


The mistake that Kennedy made was not in not having the correct information, but in not counting factions correctly! Those familiar with the pyramid scam please excuse me, but I find that for widest readership, things must be spelled out carefully.

What is the pyramid scam?

Well, when we invest in a business, we are promised good profits or interest. Our understanding is that the business will use our money to build say a new factory and make a big profit and pay us back.

In a pyramid scam, this promise is made, but there is no real investment. As each new person comes in, his money is used to pay returns to the earlier persons. Naturally, these people are delighted to get returns of 10% or 25%, and speak highly of it, bringing more and more investors.

What happened in Montreal was a pyramid scheme, but not played by any person but by Kennedy's bad luck. His bad analysts, of course are responsible for not knowing how to read the numbers.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:53 pm
 


Always4Iggy wrote:
Streaker wrote:
Hindsight is always 20/20, eh? Kennedy should have waited another ballot.

Supposedly a few Kennedy supporters had a soft spot for Martha and decided to vote for her on the first ballot, enough for Dion to sneak ahead of Kennedy.

Had it been otherwise, Kennedy might well have won the leadership of the party.

Thankfully, Streaker, my points are not based on hindsight, but on what numbers were with Kennedy when he moved!

Also, I think the story of his candidates voting for Martha is not substantiated by the numbers.


hmm.. I read about this a few days ago. I'll try to find a link. The source was credible, though.

Of course the numbers involved would have been very small - no more than a dozen Kennedy supporters. I'm not even sure they were Kennedy supporters.

I'll try to find that link.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:57 pm
 


Well, to get back to Kennedy.

All the candidates were interested in round one voting on Friday night, but naturally the tension was for the bottom few. One or more of them would be knocked out, and there was terrible tension about whose delegates had arrived and whose had not.

But the four top candidates, in order from the top were Iggy, Rae, Kennedy and Dion. These people were not bothered by round one, it was round two which was important for them. You see, in round one, the delegates had to vote for their candidate, in round two they were free, and if they had sympathies, they could quietly vote for those persons.

Dion and Kennedy were particularly competitive for the 'drop outs' from the other candidates!


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:01 pm
 


Streaker wrote:
hmm.. I read about this a few days ago. I'll try to find a link. The source was credible, though.

I'll try to find that link.

Oh I agree with you streaker, I do not have the link, but I remember the newsreport quite well. What you report here was reported in the press. But still, the report was incorrect, and checking the results of the voting do not confirm the report.

It was a bit confusing, and all sorts of information was deluging the candidates. Everyone was tense. Also, the election computers were not set up to provide information properly.

But I find on checking the numbers that it was only a pyramid that Kennedy misread!


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:17 pm
 


Kennedy should have been relaxed after the first round. The voting was as follows:

Round 1
Dion 856
Findlay 130
Kennedy 854
Rae 977
Volpe 156
Dryden 238
Brison 192
Ignatieff 1412

Kennedy was just two votes behind Dion, which you will agree is ridiculous to decide upon. If indeed his people had voted for Martha, he should have been even less bothered!

But what happened after the first round is the first leg of the pyramid! You see, as many as three candidates dropped out, and none of them moved his way! Martha went to Dion and Volpe and Brison went to Rae. So after round one, the position was as follows with the factions forming:

Dryden 238
Kennedy 854
Dion-Martha 986
Rae-Volpe-Brison 1325
Iggy 1412

Well, there was still Dryden to drop off! Kennedy could wait for round two!





PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:21 pm
 


Kinda make's me wonder if "RUserious is back. :wink:





PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:37 pm
 


Get over it. :roll: No one really gives a shit about the igmiester but you iggyforyou. The guys washed up like old toilet paper. I still think your an Imp though with multiple accounts. Or a phony/fake as some have pointed out allready.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:39 pm
 


ziggy wrote:
Get over it. :roll: No one really gives a shit about the igmiester but you iggyforyou. The guys washed up like old toilet paper. I still think your an Imp though with multiple accounts. Or a phony/fake as some have pointed out allready.
Just has know idea when to give up, doesn't he. You would think the fact he opens the same thread over with a new title in order to get someone to talk with redundant. Besides if you scroll back it is interesting that when no one responds he starts talking to himself.

I think he is a closet Conservative or one of the hard line Tories with a second name to get a laugh out of getting the Liberals on the treads battling with each other. I for one will be no longer go on any thread he starts.

Hum notice no political alliance in his ID box.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:41 pm
 


The round two result was rather bleak for Kennedy analysts. Dryden had dropped off, being the lowest, and had joined Rae!

So here is how it looked at round two.

Kennedy *** 854 *** 884
Dion-Martha *** 986 *** 974
Rae-Vol-Bri-Dry *** 1563 *** 1351
Iggy *** 1412 *** 1481

To make it easier to check my statements, I have kept the round one numbers also.

Kennedy made a stupid mistake here, or his analysts did. They lost heart that the candidates dropping out were not coming their way, and that others were growing!

Actually, the only one growing EVEN TILL THE LAST ROUND, was Iggy. Check the factions again, by adding up their first round votes as I have done.

Dion-Martha had 986 votes in the first round, they were crumbling, though slowly, and had fallen to 974!

Rae and co were 1563 in round one and had started to collapse, reaching a low of 1351.

Though Iggy was picking up people, the amazing fact is that Kennedy was too! He actually increased by 30 votes, getting 12 from Dion and 18 from Rae.

Think of the enormity of it.

There were two persons going up, Iggy and Kennedy.

There were two persons going down, Rae and Dion.

There was absolutely no reason for Kennedy to drop out, but he did not have the correct way to read the numbers. I was standing in his path, when he walked past the Rae camp, past the Iggy camp to the Dion camp. I had the calculation as above on my PDA, and was thinking to myself:

'There goes the person who will face us in the last round! Here is the person who we will face in our last round. Why is he going to talk to Dion? To convince him to drop off after round three?'

I was stunned to hear that Kennedy had read the numbers wrong, thought of himself as going down, and actually quit before his time!

Fate, my friends, had put him in line for Iggy's throne, and he gave it to Dion!

Perhaps, in his heart, he just did not believe he could make it.

But certainly, he could not differentiate a throne from a commode!


Last edited by Always4Iggy on Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.




PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:43 pm
 


BluesBud wrote:
ziggy wrote:
Get over it. :roll: No one really gives a shit about the igmiester but you iggyforyou. The guys washed up like old toilet paper. I still think your an Imp though with multiple accounts. Or a phony/fake as some have pointed out allready.
Just has know idea when to give up, doesn't he. You would think the fact he opens the same thread over with a new title in order to get someone to talk with redundant. Besides if you scroll back it is interesting that when no one responds he starts talking to himself.

I think he is a closet Conservative or one of the hard line Tories with a second name to get a laugh out of getting the Liberals on the treads battling with each other. I for one will be no longer go on any thread he starts.

Hum notice no political alliance in his ID box.

I think he's an "IMP" someone with multiple accounts. Too bad Maggiemygosh aint around still,that would be a good one. :o


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