[EyeBrock]

Too right Brother!

[bootlegga]

BartSimpson wrote:

No, they never had air superiority. Name one British bombing mission where the mission was entirely stopped before reaching their target or before getting back home?

The Germans were in the air, true, and they did menace the Brits, but they never enjoyed air superiority.

I'd argue that the Germans enjoyed air superiority during the early part of the war, especially over Poland and during the invasion of France and the Low Countries (1940). I'd have to dig out my Deighton (Blitzkrieg), but he noted at least one, if not several, Allied air attacks on German targets that were wiped out/disengaged without accomplishing their mission.

[EyeBrock]

The RAF got a shit-kicking with obsolete types (Fairey Battle etc) during the Battle of France. After that we knew the score. The Luftwaffe rarely came off on top against the RAF after August 1940.

[Regina]

BartSimpson wrote:

EyeBrock wrote:

The reality is the Luftwaffe was soundly beaten by the RAF.

'Never have so many owed so much to so few.'

The Splendid Hundred thought he was referring to their bar tab.

[martin14]

good one !

[Thanos]

The ineptness of early Luftwaffe tactics, probably thanks entirely to interference from Goering and Hitler, were probably why the RAF managed to break even and then to dominate. If the Germans had first concentrated on destroying the British radar system to the point where it could no longer be repaired, and then moved on to attacking the airfields, then things might have been different. Also, what would have happened if the Germans had grounded the bombers for two or three weeks, and gone in just with fighters to coax the RAF into a prolonged period of fighter-to-fighter combat? Would the RAF still have been around as a fighting force after days, or weeks, of facing the German numerical superiority, or would the Brits have essentially ceased to exist as an effecitve fighting force thanks to pilot death and aircraft destuction through simple attrition? It's one of the main failures of the Germans throughout WW2 that they always tried to do too much with too few resources. By not concentrating on, and eliminating, one priority threat at a time they ended up spreading themselves far too thin to accomplish their overall strategic objectives.

[EyeBrock]

The problem with the Nazis was systemic.

The Nazi military was well trained but came from a society where 'groupthink' ruled. Intiative was allowed only within strict boundaries. Ideology trumped competence.

The allies were very different. Generals who fucked up were fired, not murdered. Citizen soldiers, sailors and airmen won the day over the Stormtroopers. Freedom beats Facism.

That's where the Nazis fucked up.

[Batsy]

EyeBrock wrote:

CDN_PATRIOT wrote:

Raise it and preserve it! Luftwaffe air power of that era was awesome. I went to the Canadian Air Museum in Ottawa late last year where they have a fully restored Messerschmidt BF 109E in it's origina livery. Awesome.

-J.

Being a student of military history and an ex Air Force type this find is very interesting. A DO-17 is a great find.

But I have to say (and I'm very biased) that the Nazi Luftwaffe was 'awesome' only when they faced an inferior force. The RAF stopped them in their tracks in 1940.

They were unable to counter the allied bombing raids by the USAAF and RAF in 1941 and on and lost air superiority over occupied Europe by 1943.

The Luftwaffe put up a good fight but were out 'awesomed' by the RAF and USAAF. Now they were awesome war machines and they won.

Per Ardua ad Astra.

I think Britain, still a great manufacturing power in 1940, also got planes off the production line whenever it lost some faster than the Germans did.

[EyeBrock]

Batsy, the problem in the BoB wasn't aircraft production, it was training people to fly and fight in those aircraft.