[ckzero]

Eh I'm new here. I've been doing a research paper I'm trying to get published eventually on the origins of Canadian Special Forces. I've managed to trace some info back to the the 1st Special Services Force in world war II where an 1600 troop battlallion made up of an equal amount of Canadian and American troops was formed to perform special ops behind lines in Italy and eventually was responsible for the retaking of Rome. Anyways I'm looking for books and/or photos of any of these SF operators. Can anybody help me out? thanks.

ps. Their unit nickname was called "The Devil's Brigade"

[karra]

Don't look to Tom Clancy's recent publication called 'Special Forces.' I had the distinct displeasure to read just over 100 pages before confirming it was simply a circle jerk for him, his co-author and American consumers of bullshit.

[blubs]

ckzero wrote:

Eh I'm new here. I've been doing a research paper I'm trying to get published eventually on the origins of Canadian Special Forces. I've managed to trace some info back to the the 1st Special Services Force in world war II where an 1600 troop battllion made up of an equal amount of Canadian and American troops was formed to perform special ops behind lines in Italy and eventually was responsible for the retaking of Rome. Anyways I'm looking for books and/or photos of any of these SF operators. Can anybody help me out? thanks.

ps. Their unit nickname was called "The Devil's Brigade"

I see you are from calgary as I am here is a suggestion you might want to try the Meusuem of the Regiments on Crowchild they might help you.

[ckzero]

karra wrote:

Don't look to Tom Clancy's recent publication called 'Special Forces.' I had the distinct displeasure to read just over 100 pages before confirming it was simply a circle jerk for him, his co-author and American consumers of bullshit.

Yeah Tom Clancy's non-fiction publishcations are for the most part a big rah rah for America... which you can't really blame him for, mostly accurate, but if you hear it from him The Green Berets are the best SF guys on earth. I beg to differ and can site at least a half dozen SF groups around the world that are better... one of which is KGB believe it or not. Lets not even start with CIA's SOG...

On the other hand I really enjoy his non-fiction stuff and video games, so go figure.

[AdamNF]

Its hard to define "special forces" from the the WW2 era. I mean the 82nd Airborn was known as a special forces unit..but then with then creation of the 101st airborn the 17th airborn it just turnd into a regualr unit.

[ckzero]

Quote:

I see you are from calgary as I am here is a suggestion you might want to try the Meusuem of the Regiments on Crowchild they might help you.

Thanks for the heads up.

[karra]

Clancy's fiction is excellent reading. But that book would have readers believe there were no British in WWII. The very nation that invented the SF. Imagine!

[Canadian_Psycho]

theres a movie named the "Devil's Brigade" from MGM

http://www.mgm.com/title_title.do?title_star=DEVILSBR

and i also found this online encyclopedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil's_Brigade
(copy and paste the entire url, screwed up for some reason)

and i also found this on a "special forces" site:

http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/Canada/history.htm

hope this helps

[ckzero]

AdamNF wrote:

Its hard to define "special forces" from the the WW2 era. I mean the 82nd Airborn was known as a special forces unit..but then with then creation of the 101st airborn the 17th airborn it just turnd into a regualr unit.

Well I generally define Special Forces as any unit that does irregular missions and duties usually not deemed possible by the regular army. That means smaller units of tightly knit soldiers that specialized in certain skills but are flexiable enough to blend in with regulars (I para-phrased some of that from a National Geogrpahic expert on SFs.)

A lot of it also has to deal with the type of person that comprises these units. ie: On average only 2 out of 10 applicants that apply to the JTF2 training program get accepted, and that doesn't even guarentee they get in. Like in Top Gun, it's the best of the best that can blend in with the rest. Like the British Special Air Service each member stays in the starter units until they are called on for SAS duty, they don't get special treatment and it's a thankless job.

Anyways here's what Janes Defense Glossary defines as Special Forces:

Quote:

Special Forces (SF). U.S. Army forces organized, trained, and equipped specifically to conduct special operations. Special Forces have five primary missions: unconventional warfare, foreign internal defense, direct action, special reconnaissance, and counterterrorism. Counterterrorism is a special mission for specially organized, trained, and equipped special forces units designated in theater contingency plans.

Here's another take:

Quote:

Special Forces group (SFG). [JP 1-02] (DoD) A combat arms organization capable of planning, conducting, and supporting special operations activities in all operational environments in peace, conflict, and war. It consists of a group headquarters and headquarters company, a support company, and special forces battalions. The group can operate as a single unit, but normally the battalions plan and conduct operations from widely separated locations. The group provides general operational direction and synchronizes the activities of subordinate battalions. Although principally structured for unconventional warfare, special forces group units are capable of task-organizing to meet specific requirements.

one more to illustrate my next point -

Quote:

Special Forces operations base (SFOB). [JP 1-02] (DoD) A command, control, and support base established and operated by a special forces group or battalion from organic and attached resources. The base commander and his staff coordinate and synchronize the activities of subordinate and forward-deployed forces. An SFOB is normally established for an extended period of time to support a series of operations.

Yeah that doesn't quite pertain to WWII but the definition I think does hold true for 1st SSF - Devil's Brigade. Hell the word special is in their title. Also what about the OSS during WWII? Wouldn't the Office of Strategic Service count as a SFOB for Ops during WWII?

I guess all of this can be left up for individual intrepretation as well.

[ckzero]

Canadian_Psycho wrote:

theres a movie named the "Devil's Brigade" from MGM

http://www.mgm.com/title_title.do?title_star=DEVILSBR

and i also found this online encyclopedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil's_Brigade
(copy and paste the entire url, screwed up for some reason)

and i also found this on a "special forces" site:

http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/Canada/history.htm

hope this helps

Thanks for the links I actually read stuff on SpecialOperations.com all the time. Deke's Diary is a hoot to read every month. Yeah I was looking more for pictures I can get a hold of to either scan of copy.

[ckzero]

karra wrote:

Clancy's fiction is excellent reading. But that book would have readers believe there were no British in WWII. The very nation that invented the SF. Imagine!

HAhahahaha that's so true. I'd bank my life on an SAS operator, Spain's GEO unit, or Austrias GEK CT unit, but Delta or Marine FR is iffy. Yes they're all great contributors to the SF community but sometimes reading about American SF's makes me feel like they're just resting on their reputation instead of working. That is of course my pure opinion. Anyways the best SF units are the ones that get no press. Like JTF2 which has a 100% non-disclosure policy with the public, the governments answer is an automatic "No comment" whether they know something about a JTF2 mission or not. Usually the most successful ops are the ones nobody ever hears about.

[F/sgt Cam]

My advice is rent the movie devil's brigade, it's very informative plus it's a damn good movie too. The thing that surprised me is that Canada was actually given credit where credit was due. It was a great movie, you should really rent it.

[ckzero]

corporal-cam wrote:

My advice is rent the movie devil's brigade, it's very informative plus it's a damn good movie too. The thing that surprised me is that Canada was actually given credit where credit was due. It was a great movie, you should really rent it.

Actually I own movie. What I was look for was actual still or stock footage from the era of the brigades existance.. It may not even exist but I'm looking.

[Regina]

Here's something on the "Devil's Brigade" you should know. Also don't base any fact on a Hollywood movie no matter how good it is.......it's just a movie. There's quite a bit of information on this Regiment, just be careful were you get it if you are looking for factual information.

On 12 July 1942, the Canadian Army authorized the movement of nearly seven hundred officers and men to the US for training as part of the First Special Services Force (FSSF), a highly-specialized commando unit that was being organized for the purpose of conducting raids in the alpine regions of occupied Europe. From the summer of 1942 until disbandment in December 1944, this combined "North American" force consisted of soldiers drawn from both Canadian and US armies. From the Aleutian Islands, to Monte la Difensa, Rome and ending in Southern France, this elite US-Canadian infantry brigade established a remarkable combat record and became a symbol of the lasting partnership between our two countries. Today the FSSF is remembered both in Canada and the US for it's outstanding achievements in combat as well as it unique bi-national composition.
Prior to 1942 Canadian soldiers had never served in such close association with the US Army, and even the post-war era has seen no similar activities. The FSSF wore the same uniforms, carried the same weapons, and answered to the same superiors regardless of nationality. An American private could take orders from a Canadian sergeant, who in turn answered to an American or Canadian lieutenant. At the top of the bi-national chain of command stood Robert T. Fredrick, US Army, the man who organized and led the FSSF from it activation on 2 July 1942 until his departure on 23 June 1944, shortly after Rome fell to the Allies.

Look for some information on Canada's most decorated infantryman and you will find a few more nuggets.

[mike2277]

I watch it every time it's on.....but there are some glariing historical inaccuracies in it. eg.. referring to Dieppe as Dunkirk.