[OnTheIce]

Curtman wrote:

OnTheIce wrote:

So, because the governments books aren't in order, it's ok for a community to steal and cheat the system while allowing their own people to live in 3rd World conditions?

See, when you use words like "steal and cheat", you are implying that there is something illegal going on. Housing on reserves is a federal responsibility. They allow or disallow it.

Stealing, fraud and corruption are rampant on reserves. Telling yourself otherwise isn't helping the problem.

[Macguyver]

OnTheIce wrote:

Stealing, fraud and corruption are rampant on reserves. Telling yourself otherwise isn't helping the problem.

And you are helping the problem by labling all reserves, chiefs and Indians and thieves?

[Gunnair]

Macguyver wrote:

OnTheIce wrote:

Macguyver wrote:

http://www.auditor.sk.ca/saskrepnew.nsf/html/2011vol2index.html/$file/News%20release%20-%20Reporting%20Financial%20Results.pdf

Funny, looks like provinces aren't made to accepted accounting practices. I see not mention of fraud in the article. We steal from Peter to pay Paul every day at every level of government.

Why aren't you guys demanding our governments live up to the generally accepted accounting practices...but the Indians should.

Double standard much?

So, because the governments books aren't in order, it's ok for a community to steal and cheat the system while allowing their own people to live in 3rd World conditions?

Makes total sense.

A) The article says nothing about stealing
B) I'm not saying its right, I'm wondering why you let a government with a few billion at stake get a free pass yet $191,000 for fixing a cemetary goes to someother program and you shit yourselves.

Might be something to do with the fact that those accounting issues and corruption lead to kids to be living in sheds with tarps for a roof in -20 winter.

Not too many kids off the reserve suffer from that because some chuckle head has an accounting issue in the dog license database in the GTA.

[Gunnair]

Macguyver wrote:

OnTheIce wrote:

Stealing, fraud and corruption are rampant on reserves. Telling yourself otherwise isn't helping the problem.

And you are helping the problem by labling all reserves, chiefs and Indians and thieves?

I'd be curious to see you point out where in that sentence, is the accusation that every reserve, chief, and native is a thief.

There is a subtle difference between stating that corruption and thievery occur on reserves, with Chiefs and with natives (I submit that there is evidence to support that) and your curious knee jerk reaction that the statement must mean its an accusation against all.

I suppose if one says there are speeders in Alberta, the subtle nuances of the English language would wither before your mighty intellect as you cried foul at the accusation that every driver in Alberta broke the speed limit.

Yes, apparently there is more than one fucking genius in this thread.

[Gunnair]

Macguyver wrote:

Freakinoldguy wrote:

BRAH wrote:

It's time to cut off Native Bands in Canada once and for all.

It'd be better to tell them that their subsidies are incumbent on them allowing regular independent audit's of the Bands, Chiefs an Councils.

What they don't get audited now? Wait isn't this article about an audit?

What exactly do you want? A moment by moment update of every red cent spent?

Did I just ask 4 rhetorical questions in a row?

I would say you posed four foolish question in a row, by all means, not a record for you I assure you, but you are maintaining a trend, which is commendable.

No, the audit seems to be called for because there is an apparent mystery as to how 90 million dollars can be spent on a community over a few years, along with money coming from De Beers, and yet children live in plywood shacks with a tarp for a roof.

I think if the Chief and the Band Council lived in plywood shacks, I'd have more empathy than what I already have, but that is not the case. The Chief and her council look warm and well fed after 90 million was spent, and yet others are freezing and living in conditions that have Somalia tut tutting right now.

Yes, I think it's about time some hard questions were asked. I also think some hard questions should be asked about the restrictions placed on these people by the Indian Act as well, but government, neither CPC or previous Liberal, seem to be all that interested. I would suspect the have some interesting reasons why that is, and I would be curious to know them.

[ShepherdsDog]

Quote:

others are freezing and living in conditions that have Somalia tut tutting right now.

Actually most Somalis would be able to see a lot of similarities. All this aid pouring in and a few people hoarding it for themselves while everyone else starves and has to beg for handouts from those holding the aid that was intended for all. Third World logistics are the same regardless of geography.

[OldChum]

(Canada does not owe Native's a prosperous and free life. We'll give them tons of benefits to hit the ground running but if you chose to do nothing with your life and community, it's not our fault. A little self respect and appreciation for what you have goes a long way.)

If you owned it it might help it is given by, is the key remember they own nothing on the reserve.

Yes, I think it's about time some hard questions were asked. I also think some hard questions should be asked about the restrictions placed on these people by the Indian Act as well, but government, neither CPC or previous Liberal, seem to be all that interested. I would suspect the have some interesting reasons why that is, and I would be curious to know them.



Wonder if the resources were are have been involved um seems to smell a bit. We as Canadians have screwed them from day one face it . gee they screw up some program they are given to run with no or little proper training . Why do we get self righteous look at our lying governments .

[Gunnair]

OldChum wrote:

(Canada does not owe Native's a prosperous and free life. We'll give them tons of benefits to hit the ground running but if you chose to do nothing with your life and community, it's not our fault. A little self respect and appreciation for what you have goes a long way.)

If you owned it it might help it is given by, is the key remember they own nothing on the reserve.

Yes, I think it's about time some hard questions were asked. I also think some hard questions should be asked about the restrictions placed on these people by the Indian Act as well, but government, neither CPC or previous Liberal, seem to be all that interested. I would suspect the have some interesting reasons why that is, and I would be curious to know them.



Wonder if the resources were are have been involved um seems to smell a bit. We as Canadians have screwed them from day one face it . gee they screw up some program they are given to run with no or little proper training . Why do we get self righteous look at our lying governments .

It would help if you studied the quote function.

Quote:

gee they screw up some program they are given to run with no or little proper training . Why do we get self righteous look at our lying governments

I'm assuming you must have another alternative unless of course you're suggesting corrupt native governments get a by.

[jeff744]

OldChum wrote:

Wonder if the resources were are have been involved um seems to smell a bit. We as Canadians have screwed them from day one face it . gee they screw up some program they are given to run with no or little proper training . Why do we get self righteous look at our lying governments .

False. While we did screw them over greatly we were not nearly as effective as we would have liked, there are still a lot of bands that are economically feasible and yet inexplicably are failing. In the last 30 years we have made immense progress and we are spending huge amounts of cash trying to train them to use things we build for them, the problem now is that when a university reserves 500 spots a year for natives only 50 take the offer. We are spending and spending but only a small group of them are actually taking advantage of what we give them.

Then you look at how 50% of native live off reserve, the 50% that are still on the reserve are either located near a good source of income or the leftovers, in a lot of cases those leftovers turn into people of power in the band. In fact there is a movement among band members to create a group that monitors these councils (I forget the name of it but it was mentioned in J.R. Miller's Lethal Legacy). When your own people are trying to monitor spending habits you know there is a problem. We are being strict because they are new to this, we can afford to spend 90 million now but if we are sending them and every other northern band 90 million every 5 years there will be nothing left for the band that wants a $5 million loan to build an apartment complex in a city to fund their band in the long term.

There are hundreds of success stories where the government completely ignores the bands finances, sending only what the treaty requires because the band is so successful they don't need the help. Attawapsikat is the complete opposite, their leader is obviously not going hungry, they had 90 million a year and spent 11 million of that on 'administration', 90 people are living in 2 portable buildings, and have for years. How does a a band find 11 million for administration but can't afford to buy a few more of those buildings? You can blame the white man all your want but even if we sent 90 million every year only their administration budget would change. The government is using audits to root out leaders like this and make it so that the band only needs what their treaty states every year because they are largely self sufficient.

[jeff744]

Gunnair wrote:

OldChum wrote:

(Canada does not owe Native's a prosperous and free life. We'll give them tons of benefits to hit the ground running but if you chose to do nothing with your life and community, it's not our fault. A little self respect and appreciation for what you have goes a long way.)

If you owned it it might help it is given by, is the key remember they own nothing on the reserve.

Yes, I think it's about time some hard questions were asked. I also think some hard questions should be asked about the restrictions placed on these people by the Indian Act as well, but government, neither CPC or previous Liberal, seem to be all that interested. I would suspect the have some interesting reasons why that is, and I would be curious to know them.



Wonder if the resources were are have been involved um seems to smell a bit. We as Canadians have screwed them from day one face it . gee they screw up some program they are given to run with no or little proper training . Why do we get self righteous look at our lying governments .

It would help if you studied the quote function.

Quote:

gee they screw up some program they are given to run with no or little proper training . Why do we get self righteous look at our lying governments

I'm assuming you must have another alternative unless of course you're suggesting corrupt native governments get a by.

Kill all the white people and give the land back to the people that were here after the people they killed off before the evil white man arrived?

[BeaverFever]

[quote="OnTheIce"] Natives, not the rest of Canada, have allowed their own people to live in these conditions. [/b] There's plenty of blame to go around, but you can look around the world and see that anywhere where a people have had similar history and treatment as our natives have had, the outcomes are always similar. This would suggest that "individual responsiblity" is less significant than history and structural influences.

[quote] We'll give them tons of benefits to hit the ground running [quote] We don't do that.