[Tricks]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

If indigenous people are being dismissed for juries based on race, that's a problem.

Is being able to dismiss jurors (remember they can't do it infinitely) not part of a full defense? Should people be forced to have jurors that will have bias against the accused? Isn't impartiality something that should be upheld for juries? I'm not saying this jury was impartial, but the prosecution case sucked.

[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

you shouldn't walk on the excuse that "my gun just went off."

From almost the beginning I've said that I thought he should and could likely get charged with manslaughter for careless use of a firearm that caused death. Where do I let him off with a lame excuse?

As pointed out, his friends screwed him over with their lies, and if one is to believe that he was passed out in the car(BA was.03), they dragged him into and caused the situation that resulted in the gunfire. Remember, the judge said that the warning shots fired by Stanley were justified. The jurors could not prove beyond a reasonable doubt based on the witnesses lies conflicting and changing testimony. Stanley was acquitted/got off based solely on those issues, not an attitude that Coulton was just a dirty Indian.
Your attitude/position that the jurors are uncaring racists is in itself racist.

There is no argument that our 'justice' system is flawed. That is constantly being pointed out on this forum. Drunks evade cops in a stolen vehicle and kill two kids and they get at most 2 years. A drunk kills a family of four and gets sentenced to a healing lodge, A sociopath rapes and kills young girls, including her own sister, with her husband. She tapes it and the tape shows her as a willing participant and that's suppressed by her lawyer. She only gets a dozen years and is now out enjoying her new life and kids. No, our system isn't fair and its in need of upgrading.

[Thanos]

Federal Liberals now working to change jury process in order to ensure Native-favourable decisions:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jury-se ... -1.4531792


I'd like to think the Supreme Court would put a stop to this but given things like the Gladue decision they'll probably give a unanimous thumbs-up to this insanity.

[ShepherdsDog]

The trial that has become a circus, now has the clown show up

[Thanos]

Oddly enough, back in the days of the civil rights marches against the KKK, liberals wanted the rules changed to ensure that family and friends of an accused Klansman would be kept off of juries because the local "law" doing exactly that led to instigators of lynch mobs being exonerated for far too many murders of black people that had been committed. Yet today's liberals are more than willing to throw that legacy of correcting structural injustice away and now want racial considerations to be the deciding factor on who serves on juries.

The center cannot hold, mere anarchy blah blah blah. The social free-fall into the nothingness of extremist chaos continues unabated.

[Freakinoldguy]

To be honest I don't think anyone except Stanley knows what really happened that day and given the witnesses for the prosecutions continuing problems remembering facts or even telling the truth I'm pretty sure, that anyone not Native or named Trudeau finds this decision understandable and no amount of retrials in a fair and unbiased forum will garner anything but the same result.

Unless of course, someone in power decides to usurp the authority of the jurors who rendered their decision for personal gain which, would severely damage our justice system's ability to ensure the accused's right to receive a fair trial was placed before the Gov'ts desire to push their agenda.

[Thanos]

Trudeau and his ministers can try to claim the high ground on this but what they're doing is as much of an attack on the impartiality of the law as anything Trump and his scum underlings are doing in the US to ruin the basic idea of law and order. The only difference is in the degree of damage being done but it's identical in terms of self-serving political intent.

[Jabberwalker]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

To be honest I don't think anyone except Stanley and his son know what really happened that day and given the witnesses problems remembering or telling the truth I'm pretty sure, unlike the PM who given his actions must be psychic, that no matter how many trials they hold we'll never know the truth.

I've read accounts that say the Indian kids came after the Stanley's with a rifle on others that say they had a rifle earlier on before they got to the Stanley farm. Was that rifle actually found on the scene?

[BRAH]

PMJT's meddling incompetence is going to turn this into a Baltimore, St. Louis riot.

[ShepherdsDog]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

To be honest I don't think anyone except Stanley and his son know what really happened that day and given the witnesses problems remembering or telling the truth I'm pretty sure, unlike the PM who given his actions must be psychic, that no matter how many trials they hold we'll never know the truth.

I've read accounts that say the Indian kids came after the Stanley's with a rifle on others that say they had a rifle earlier on before they got to the Stanley farm. Was that rifle actually found on the scene?

Yes. They broke the but and stock trying g to steal another vehicle on a neighbours farm. I think I read somewhere that the use of a firearm was another breach of probation for one or some of them. So was abstaining from alcohol and they were illegally operating the vehicle.

[Zipperfish]

Tricks Tricks:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

If indigenous people are being dismissed for juries based on race, that's a problem.

Is being able to dismiss jurors (remember they can't do it infinitely) not part of a full defense? Should people be forced to have jurors that will have bias against the accused? Isn't impartiality something that should be upheld for juries? I'm not saying this jury was impartial, but the prosecution case sucked.

I don't know. I know the cops and indians in Winnipeg, and I imagine it's much the same in Saskatchewan. I know that indigenous people make up 81% of the prison population and a fraction of the population. I know they have systematically targetted by racist policies by Britain and then Canada. I know I see blatant racism against First Nations time and time again on these boards. I know that it was national headlines that Tina Fontaine had alcohol in her system. Not that she was kidnapped and murder. No, she had alcohol in her system. I know that European settlers have killed indigenous peoples by a factor of about 1000 to 1 versus them killing us. I have friends and family who are Indians and I've seen it all first-hand. I' sick of it, and I;m sick of the denial. We get all smug up here about the US and the blacks, but by every single indicator, our indigenous peoples are worse off.

[Coach85]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Tricks Tricks:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

If indigenous people are being dismissed for juries based on race, that's a problem.

Is being able to dismiss jurors (remember they can't do it infinitely) not part of a full defense? Should people be forced to have jurors that will have bias against the accused? Isn't impartiality something that should be upheld for juries? I'm not saying this jury was impartial, but the prosecution case sucked.

I don't know. I know the cops and indians in Winnipeg, and I imagine it's much the same in Saskatchewan. I know that indigenous people make up 81% of the prison population and a fraction of the population. I know they have systematically targetted by racist policies by Britain and then Canada. I know I see blatant racism against First Nations time and time again on these boards. I know that it was national headlines that Tina Fontaine had alcohol in her system. Not that she was kidnapped and murder. No, she had alcohol in her system. I know that European settlers have killed indigenous peoples by a factor of about 1000 to 1 versus them killing us. I have friends and family who are Indians and I've seen it all first-hand. I' sick of it, and I;m sick of the denial. We get all smug up here about the US and the blacks, but by every single indicator, our indigenous peoples are worse off.

I'm sick of you and the Natives playing this card. every. single. time.

Yes, there is bad past with our Country and the Native community. That's long over.

It's not the fault of the Whites that Natives make up the majority of certain prison populations. It's their fault.

It's not the fault of the Whites that there's rampant alcoholism and abuse on reserves. It's their fault.

It's not the fault of Whites that Natives opt to live in 3rd World conditions. It's their fault.

It's time for the Native community to take ownership of the problems that plague their people and stop blaming it on whitey.

Time to move on and take some responsibility.

[Thanos]

The root cause of all Native problems isn't active or institutionalized racism. It's the reserve system itself, where entire generations have been trapped on isolated plots of land with terrible educational and economic opportunities. Combine that with the pathologies left behind in the communities by the damage the residential schools caused and the current catastrophic system should no longer be a surprise to anyone.

[Coach85]

Thanos Thanos:

The root cause of all Native problems isn't active or institutionalized racism. It's the reserve system itself, where entire generations have been trapped on isolated plots of land with terrible educational and economic opportunities. Combine that with the pathologies left behind in the communities by the damage the residential schools caused and the current catastrophic system should no longer be a surprise to anyone.

They are not trapped. Complete and total myth.

Natives support the current reservation system. The system itself is a problem, for a wide variety of reasons.

[Thanos]

Being on those reserves must cause a lot of Stockholm Syndrome, especially for anyone who is outside the inner circle of the chief or band council's immediate family and friends. Add in abysmal job prospects where there appears to be zero chance for any personal advancement and for a lot of Natives it must seem like a trap that's impossible to get out of.