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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:54 pm
 


I owe an apology to Thanos. I misread some of your early statements. Seems to me he, as well as others, state that we are all responsible for our actions, despite what took place 200 years ago. This I can get behind. Yes we all are responsible for our actions.


Last edited by newz on Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:57 pm
 


Zipperfish wrote:
So, no, you don't just get to wash your hands of it all, sorry.


Tens of billions of $$$$ already spent, says whitey has not washed his hands of it.

But it is as usual, just mo' money.

Mo' money.

And mo' money.


Sign over your house yet ? FNs need mo' money.




Thanos wrote:
Some of the hard-left commentary out there right now is really horrifying. The Stanleys and the other farmers are being referred to as "settlers", and the "argument" is pretty much being openly made that, just by virtue of being Native, Colten Boushie and his friends had the absolute right to go onto anyone else's property anytime they wanted to, to steal anything they wanted to take, and to do anything they wanted to the people living there. Tack on the truly reckless interference being done by Trudeau and his ministers and this thing is turning into a bad joke.



You know where else they use words like 'settlers' ?

That's some real ZANU PF / ANC terrorist talk.

Commies looking to start another race war.



But hey, he was just out for a drive.

Zero responsibility. As usual.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:29 am
 


Zipperfish wrote:
Tricks wrote:
Zipperfish wrote:
If indigenous people are being dismissed for juries based on race, that's a problem.
Is being able to dismiss jurors (remember they can't do it infinitely) not part of a full defense? Should people be forced to have jurors that will have bias against the accused? Isn't impartiality something that should be upheld for juries? I'm not saying this jury was impartial, but the prosecution case sucked.


I don't know. I know the cops and indians in Winnipeg, and I imagine it's much the same in Saskatchewan. I know that indigenous people make up 81% of the prison population and a fraction of the population.


Well zippy have your people stop doing the crime and they won't be in jail. Stop stabbing someone for walking down the street with a case of beer. Been in Winnipeg for many year and i know the story... another drinking party on Boyd ave. ends in the slaying of two people. Bla Bla Bla, more times than not it is your native brothers jabbing a knife into some poor soul for the most minor of things including, happened to be be walking down the street. That is why your brothers are "over represented" in jail.
Because it is your brothers who keep doing this crap. FFS stop acting like idiots and you won't go to jail.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:04 am
 


Thanos wrote:
BRAH wrote:
Thanos wrote:

Going by Shep's horror stories that is something that will never happen.

Therein lies the problem because it's easier to play the race card then for the parents to own the fact they had a responsibility and failed which tragically cost their son his life.


Some of the hard-left commentary out there right now is really horrifying. The Stanleys and the other farmers are being referred to as "settlers", and the "argument" is pretty much being openly made that, just by virtue of being Native, Colten Boushie and his friends had the absolute right to go onto anyone else's property anytime they wanted to, to steal anything they wanted to take, and to do anything they wanted to the people living there. Tack on the truly reckless interference being done by Trudeau and his ministers and this thing is turning into a bad joke.

Sounds like what white South African farmers, ranchers have been facing. The lack of parental responsibility isn't just an issue on reserves and when a tragedy happens parents wash their hands of any responsibility they had.


Last edited by BRAH on Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:33 am
 


JaredMilne wrote:
BRAH wrote:
Weibo Ludwig walked free for the same incident and no one seemed to care because the victim was white.


And should Ludwig have walked free in the first place?

ShepherdsDog wrote:

In my own opinion, if Stanley's explanation is what happened, it was still an unsafe use of a firearm and the charge of manslaughter should have been made. I'm sorry I've been a hunter for years and I was trained in the safe and proper handling of firearms while in the military. That was not properly handling a firearm. Unfortunately, Boushie's friends were looking for trouble that day and found it in spades. That has been firmly established. Did he deserve to die for their poor choices(The lies made in court demonstrate they are still making poor choices)? No I don't think so, but I also don't think that Gerald Stanley and his family deserved to be placed in that situation either.


Yeah, but that's the thing. Stanley was charged with manslaughter, but he got acquitted for that along with the murder.

IOW, the jury fucked up.


How did the jury fuck up? They passed verdict based on the evidence presented. One of the witnesses even had to be cautioned against perjuring themselves! The crown did not prove Stanley intended to kill anyone.

Should we start convicting people now based on whether the victim's family or the public decides the accused is guilty?

JaredMilne wrote:
Coach85 wrote:

So, how many bullets should this dipstick have gotten pumped into him?


Um, you do realize that a disproportionate percentage of our prison population is Indigenous, right? The government's own reports confirmed it.

Sounds like Indigenous defendants are more likely to have the book thrown at them.


There is a difference between a population being imprisoned and being imprisoned falsely. Do you have evidence that the Native population is being imprisoned falsely?

Perhaps they are imprisoned more often because they do more things that are illegal and get caught more often? Perhaps there is a problem with enforcement, that Natives are watched closer, and therefore get caught more. But let's not start assuming they are being falsely accused or convicted without some proof.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:40 am
 


Quote:
but he got acquitted for that along with the murder.

We have this little thing in our legal system where guilt beyond a reasonable doubt has to be proven. The witnesses were compulsive liars whose stories kept changing. They brought Boushie, who was supposedly passed out, into the dangerous situation and engaged in acts that resulted in his death, and their lies ensured Stanley's acquittal. Had they not been lying sacks of shit, their could have been a good chance Stanley would have been found guilty of manslaughter. Neither the judge nor the jury failed. The prosecution did and Boushie's kith and kin did.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:45 am
 


Coach85 wrote:
housewife wrote:

Oh ffs everyone uses that as a defense no matter race or gender. You may be sick of the race card I’m sick of people tarring every native with what you think you know about all.


Let me get this straight...you're sick of Natives being tarred yet you've got no problem tarring everyone else saying they play the race card too?

What Natives have told us is that these young men were just out for a drive with friends and nobody, not his family or community, is taking responsibility for his actions. All of the blame lies with the man he and his friends tried to rob while armed, drunk and with 3 tires on their vehicle.

Oh, and the entire jury is racist.

There is not a single group in this Country that uses their race and culture to excuse their actions quite like our First Nations.


For clarity. The poor pitiful me defense has been used more and more in the courts regardless of race or gender. No where did I say that this pertains to this case.

I have already said I don’t believe that they were just driving around. Nor did I say anything about his family or reserve other than not all reserves are corrupt. Sure as hell didn’t say it was all anyone’s fault.

As to the jury I haven’t said anything. Though if I were them I would be pissed with the shit storm the pm has created and would be worried about their pictures being on line. They hear the evidence not all of which is not out in the public and gave a verdict with the guidelines they had.

Edit for clarity :roll:


Last edited by housewife on Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:50 am
 


housewife wrote:
Though if I were them I would be pissed with the shit storm the pm has created and would be worried about their pictures being on line. They hear the evidence not all of which is out in the public and gave a verdict with the guidelines they had.


R=UP

And that is why, quite correctly, that trials are not televised and photographs are not allowed.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:02 am
 


Coach85 wrote:

Sorry, who's taken a pass?

What else is left to do? How many times do we have to apologize for the past?

None of these types of issues have any effect on the types of young men coming out of these reserves.

How many decades or centuries will pass on before the FN's decide to take some responsibility for themselves?


You expect them to take responsibility yet you take none yourself. That's all "long over" you say. "I already said I'm sorry" you say. That's not taking responsibility, that's being a petulant child.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:11 am
 


newz wrote:
If indigenous peopleWell zippy have your people stop doing the crime and they won't be in jail. Stop stabbing someone for walking down the street with a case of beer. Been in Winnipeg for many year and i know the story... another drinking party on Boyd ave. ends in the slaying of two people. Bla Bla Bla, more times than not it is your native brothers jabbing a knife into some poor soul for the most minor of things including, happened to be be walking down the street. That is why your brothers are "over represented" in jail.
Because it is your brothers who keep doing this crap. FFS stop acting like idiots and you won't go to jail.


Just like your fellow racists here, you're more than willing to tell natives to take responsibility, but don't want to take any yourself.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:13 am
 


Thanos wrote:

None of this has anything to do with anything we know of that was presented as evidence or argument in the Stanley trial. Is your contention that Boushie and his friends had a right to terrorize local farmers because of what happened in the residential schools or from the government seizing children back in the 1960's? If this is your claim, that Natives are literally exempt from the law, then please clearly say so.


They are not exempt from the law. If they were they wouldn't be crowding all the prisons, would they? This is the state of ridiculousness we get to--where we have the objective fact that natives are vastly overrepresented in the prisons, coinciding with the notion that natives get away with whatever they want.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:30 am
 


Zipperfish wrote:
You expect them to take responsibility yet you take none yourself. That's all "long over" you say. "I already said I'm sorry" you say. That's not taking responsibility, that's being a petulant child.


Not that I agree 100% with Coach, but I take responsibility for anything I've done. I have never oppressed anyone, I have tried hard to never think differently or treat anyone differently just because they didn't look like me or dress like me or anything else, like me.

When I make mistakes, I own up to them. What I don't do is feel bad for mistakes other people have made, especially if it's done by the Government in which I have no control and before I walked this earth.

I'm all about treating Inishenabe the way they want to be treated. I'm all about 'reconciliation'. But it works both ways. I cannot be blamed for things I did not do and will not apologize for, and I will not hold anyone to account for things they didn't do.

But like an article I quoted a couple pages back said - It's not a race thing, it's a crime thing. The First Nations cannot cry that Gerald Stanley did not face justice, while people who ran away from his farm that day are still wanted in connection with that event. We cannot convict in the media a man who only defended his family and property when the police couldn't, and has been found not guilty in a court of law.

Police are not in the business of protecting anyone or anything. They investigate crime only. It's up to everyone to prevent crime, and as the MMIWG inquiry closes in on the obvious conclusion we all see coming, First Nations are not doing a very good job of keeping the peace and dispensing with 'Justice'.

Just ask Shep the things he sees every day. Is the reserve he lives on special, or completely like many other reserves? They need to own up to the fact that they are really bad at the things they are accusing Canada of, and by association, all of us.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:31 am
 


Zipperfish wrote:

You expect them to take responsibility yet you take none yourself. That's all "long over" you say. "I already said I'm sorry" you say. That's not taking responsibility, that's being a petulant child.


I take responsibility for my own actions. Do you?

How have you taken responsibility with respect to our First Nations people?

What else do we need to do as a Nation before we can expect FN's people to take responsibility for themselves?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:34 am
 


Zipperfish wrote:

Just like your fellow racists here, you're more than willing to tell natives to take responsibility, but don't want to take any yourself.


You're what's wrong with society.

Is it racist to ask people to take personal responsibility for their own actions?

Asking people to do so is not racist. Remove your head from your ass.


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