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CKA Elite
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:09 am
 


Thanos wrote:
You say that with your vote. You don't have the right to personally demand that every tax dollar is spent only to your personal approval.


the only thing you say when you vote is yes to maintaining a classist, capitalist system, and choosing a new master. votes aren't psychic paper that you metaphysically attach messages to and become magically interpreted by the politicians recieving them.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:15 am
 


OnTheIce wrote:
I love teachers. I hate teacher unions. Militant, backwards, selfish, greedy....just some of the things I heard from Durham teachers during this past strike while they sat out 5 weeks, lost thousands in pay all for an illegal strike that put students LAST.



did you enjoy your weekend? that was brought to you by militant unionism. i wouldn't go quite as far as calling our teachers' unions militant, when they regularly comply with back to work legislation.

it would go a long way to improve the image of our teachers' unions if they would first build some solidarity with parents and students before going on strike instead of consistently using them as pawns.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:19 am
 


Lemmy wrote:
BartSimpson wrote:
I don't GIVE my money to the government, they take what they want from my paycheck BEFORE I have any say in it.

Yep. Same here. But does it make a difference? Would you refuse to pay it if they just sent you a bill instead?

And remember, this is Canada: it's a paycheque. :wink:


yes, it does make a difference. i work under the table these days, because fuck giving tax money to more racist, corrupt police and unnecessary boss' wars.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:26 am
 


At this moment I regret having been obligated to contribute to an education system that did such a poor job of teaching a one-note obtuse jabroni like you. The pap you spread does nothing but serve to show what an utterly obsolete person you are.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:43 am
 


romanP wrote:
OnTheIce wrote:
I love teachers. I hate teacher unions. Militant, backwards, selfish, greedy....just some of the things I heard from Durham teachers during this past strike while they sat out 5 weeks, lost thousands in pay all for an illegal strike that put students LAST.



did you enjoy your weekend? that was brought to you by militant unionism. i wouldn't go quite as far as calling our teachers' unions militant, when they regularly comply with back to work legislation.

it would go a long way to improve the image of our teachers' unions if they would first build some solidarity with parents and students before going on strike instead of consistently using them as pawns.


This is 2015. This isn't the 1800's and early 1900's. We have laws. Standards.

Unions have done the Country and it's workers a lot of good. Today, they are out-of-touch political organizations.

No longer are they about the worker, they are about dues. Money. More members paying dues and more members making more money without regards for anything but the pockets of the leadership and members.

What we have today is beyond corrupt. We have unions being paid millions for 'bargaining costs' but then spending millions to help get the same politicians elected....and we allow this to happen!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:49 am
 


I wonder what a non-militant teacher's union would look like? Both the govts and the union play the parents against the other side. If govts were willing to accept binding arbitration, there would be no need for all the militancy. In BC, at least, it's the govt that resists accepting arbitration, the teachers would be all for it. So without the teachers taking job action, they would just get pushed further and further down the pay scale. Do we really value the education of our children so little, that that is what we want?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:54 am
 


andyt wrote:
I wonder what a non-militant teacher's union would look like? Both the govts and the union play the parents against the other side. If govts were willing to accept binding arbitration, there would be no need for all the militancy. In BC, at least, it's the govt that resists accepting arbitration, the teachers would be all for it. So without the teachers taking job action, they would just get pushed further and further down the pay scale. Do we really value the education of our children so little, that that is what we want?


Teachers need to be declared an essential service. That solves the striking issue and fair arbitration.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:57 am
 


OnTheIce wrote:
romanP wrote:
OnTheIce wrote:
I love teachers. I hate teacher unions. Militant, backwards, selfish, greedy....just some of the things I heard from Durham teachers during this past strike while they sat out 5 weeks, lost thousands in pay all for an illegal strike that put students LAST.



did you enjoy your weekend? that was brought to you by militant unionism. i wouldn't go quite as far as calling our teachers' unions militant, when they regularly comply with back to work legislation.

it would go a long way to improve the image of our teachers' unions if they would first build some solidarity with parents and students before going on strike instead of consistently using them as pawns.


This is 2015. This isn't the 1800's and early 1900's. We have laws. Standards.


there were laws then too. are all laws just and good?

"right to work" legislation is nothing but violent oppression. the most effective way to fight it is militant, horizontal unionism.

Quote:
Unions have done the Country and it's workers a lot of good. Today, they are out-of-touch political organizations.


many unions have colaborated with the management class, contributing your kind of anti-union sentiment. they should not be doing that. that is scab unionism.

Quote:
No longer are they about the worker, they are about dues. Money. More members paying dues and more members making more money without regards for anything but the pockets of the leadership and members.


in Ontario, you can thank the Rand formula for that. in my union, dues are voluntary, and we got rid of the position of president in 1915. there are only two paid positions in the IWW, and those who fill them do not have a vote or any overriding controlling power over union actions.

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What we have today is beyond corrupt. We have unions being paid millions for 'bargaining costs' but then spending millions to help get the same politicians elected....and we allow this to happen!


no doubt, unions should not be using union dues to endorse political candidates or political campaigns, especially not without a mandate from the members to do so. in the IWW, we do not endorse political candidates, and we do not make alliances with political parties because as an anti-capitalist union, we recognise this as collaboration with the ruling class and a means of upholding the classist capitalist system, which we oppose and wish to abolish.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:01 am
 


andyt wrote:
I wonder what a non-militant teacher's union would look like? Both the govts and the union play the parents against the other side. If govts were willing to accept binding arbitration, there would be no need for all the militancy. In BC, at least, it's the govt that resists accepting arbitration, the teachers would be all for it. So without the teachers taking job action, they would just get pushed further and further down the pay scale. Do we really value the education of our children so little, that that is what we want?


a non-militant teachers' union is one that doesn't build solidarity with students and parents before going on strike, to make sure their needs continue to be met. a non-militant teachers' union complies with anti-strike legislation and gets back to work when ordered by the government.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:02 am
 


IF the govt orders them back to work, the govt should at that point have to accept binding arbitration as well.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:16 am
 


romanP wrote:

there were laws then too. are all laws just and good?


Today, we have laws about rate of pay, hours of work and basic employment standards along with health and safety regulations. Those weren't there before. They are now.

romanP wrote:
"right to work" legislation is nothing but violent oppression. the most effective way to fight it is militant, horizontal unionism.


You have it backwards. Forcing people into a union and making them pay to support their political activities is far more oppressive than allowing people not to pay into glorified political organization.

romanP wrote:
no doubt, unions should not be using union dues to endorse political candidates or political campaigns, especially not without a mandate from the members to do so. in the IWW, we do not endorse political candidates, and we do not make alliances with political parties because as an anti-capitalist union, we recognise this as collaboration with the ruling class and a means of upholding the classist capitalist system, which we oppose and wish to abolish.


Your union is unlike most. Especially unlike public sector unions.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:18 am
 


romanP wrote:

a non-militant teachers' union is one that doesn't build solidarity with students and parents before going on strike, to make sure their needs continue to be met. a non-militant teachers' union complies with anti-strike legislation and gets back to work when ordered by the government.



Teachers and teacher unions aren't worried about solidarity between them, students and parents.

Being militant has driven away public support for unions because the children are the ones who always end up suffering in the end.

Driving home the other day with my kids in the car, my son was talking about how soccer might be cancelled again this year. My daughter asked why and my son, who's 10 years old, replied "Because teachers go on strike, like, every other year".


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:25 am
 


here's your "militant" teachers' unions at work...

Ontario teachers' unions backed provincial Liberal campaigns

i'm sure this will do wonders for public support of teachers' unions. always works in the favour of the ruling and management classes when they are given all the ammunition they need to shoot workers in the back.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:37 am
 


OnTheIce wrote:
romanP wrote:

there were laws then too. are all laws just and good?


Today, we have laws about rate of pay, hours of work and basic employment standards along with health and safety regulations. Those weren't there before. They are now.


we also have laws that require no-strike clauses in union contracts. that is a losing proposition.

Quote:
romanP wrote:
"right to work" legislation is nothing but violent oppression. the most effective way to fight it is militant, horizontal unionism.


You have it backwards.


nope. fighting back has always worked.

Quote:
Forcing people into a union and making them pay to support their political activities is far more oppressive than allowing people not to pay into glorified political organization.


neither is a winning strategy for workers. this is what creates all of the anti-union sentiment needed to falsely justify right to work legislation. both are games played by the ruling, management, and employing classes, and we all lose when unions scab on their own members.

Quote:
romanP wrote:
no doubt, unions should not be using union dues to endorse political candidates or political campaigns, especially not without a mandate from the members to do so. in the IWW, we do not endorse political candidates, and we do not make alliances with political parties because as an anti-capitalist union, we recognise this as collaboration with the ruling class and a means of upholding the classist capitalist system, which we oppose and wish to abolish.


Your union is unlike most. Especially unlike public sector unions.


the Industrial Workers of the World is a union built on militant anti-capitalism, and voluntary, mutual co-operation. we oppose trade unionism because it is scab unionism. today's unions love to claim right to our successes, but they are only riding our coat-tails. the IWW's actions contributed greatly to the end of child labour, with our involvemet in the Lawrence, Massachussetts textile strike of 1912, also known as the Bread and Roses Strike, which saw 20,000 workers striking in the dead of winter and facing down National Guard soldiers armed with rifles and bayonets. one woman was shot and killed, another martyr for the labour movement.

Pete Seeger, Noam Chomsky, and Tom Morello are some well-known folks who are members of the IWW.

Quote:
Union Burying Ground
Words and Music by Woody Guthrie

I see they're low'ring a right new coffin,
I see they're letting down a right new coffin,
Way over in that union burying ground.

And the new dirt's a falling on a right new coffin,
The new dirt's a falling on a right new coffin,
Way over in that union burying ground.

Oh, tell me, who's that they're letting down, down?
Tell me, who's that they're letting down, down?
Way over in that union burying ground.

Another union organizer,
Another union organizer,
Way over in that union burying ground.

A union brother and a union sister,
A union brother and a union sister,
Way over in that union burying ground.

A union father and a union mother,
A union father and a union mother,
Way over in that union burying ground.

Well, I'm a gonna sleep in a union coffin,
I'm a gonna sleep in a union coffin,
Way over in that union burying ground.

Every new grave brings a thousand new ones,
Every new grave brings a thousand members,
Way over in that union burying ground.

Every new grave brings a thousand brothers,
And every new grave brings a thousand sisters
To the union in that union burying ground.


Last edited by romanP on Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:43 am
 


OnTheIce wrote:
Teachers need to be declared an essential service. That solves the striking issue and fair arbitration.

Horseshit. You're talking about daycare, not education.


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