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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:35 am
 


hmm, fun topic we have going here, i'll just leave this here.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:35 am
 


OnTheIce wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
How long should someone continue to work, under past contract's terms, without a contract before they have to start forcing management to negotiate a new deal? What's a fair time to be patient? The ETFO is going on 18 months now, working without a contract; continuing to go to work so as NOT to inconvenience Ontario families, without a fucking contract. How many times has ETFO stalled or delayed negotiations? NONE. How many times management stalled? 41. This one's on management, OTI, not the union. The union wants a deal. Management does not. Any potential work stoppages here aren't "teachers holding kids hostage", it's management holding your kids hostage this time. Jesus, you're smart enough to get this.


The teachers aren't working out of pure consideration for families. That's just nonsense. They're working because they like their jobs, the pay is good and they have bills to pay. They're still being paid. It's not like there's any hardship on the teachers waiting for a contract. The unions made out pretty good too, having millions put into their pockets due to the delays in bargaining.


let's not forget where the strike mandate came from, and who thought it would be a good idea to cancel school lunches.

Quote:
Management doesn't choose to put kids last.


management puts the boss and profits first, and everything else last.

Quote:
Unions make that choice.


they could do better, if they weren't so fixated on a model of unionism that doesn't work and is always a losing strategy.

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Lemmy wrote:
With a Liberal provincial majority and a Liberal federal majority? You're fucking kidding, right?


The Federal Liberals have nothing to do with it....Kathleen's days are numbered. One of these days, Queen's Park will get tired of these games and holding kids hostage will be a thing of the past.


yeah, and then we'll really show them whose boss by.. uh.. electing the Tories again? yeah, that worked out really well the other 22 times they've formed Ontario government. i'm sure there's no reason at all why we flip-flop between Tory and Grit over and over and complain about the scandals of one and the scandals of the other, round and round we go again. it's just a mystery, right?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:39 am
 


Public_Domain wrote:
hmm, fun topic we have going here, i'll just leave this here.


oh good, another Bingo card to add to my collection of anti-oppressive Bingo cards! ^_^

for the record, though, Marx was a racist, and the USSR did kill millions. correct me if i'm wrong but didn't both Marx and Bakunin get kicked out of the First Internationale partly for their anti-Jewish sentiments?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:47 am
 


Lemmy wrote:
When has a union ever refused to send a labour dispute to arbitration in Canadian history? Ever?


they have usually been legislated into arbitration, and complied with the legislation.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:52 am
 


let's see how many squares Bart can ping before this thread is dead!
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:53 am
 


romanP wrote:
for the record, though, Marx was a racist, and the USSR did kill millions. correct me if i'm wrong but didn't both Marx and Bakunin get kicked out of the First Internationale partly for their anti-Jewish sentiments?
I believe Marx was a bit of a misogynist too, despite his insistence that women get suffrage.

No gods, no masters, etc etc.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:18 am
 


romanP wrote:
let's see how many squares Bart can ping before this thread is dead!
Image

Why are you singling Bart out? I would go on the record to say that the vast majority of people on CKA would say that communism was a failed experiment. Many of the middle of the roaders, and left of centers on this forum served in the armed forces and were willing to risk their lives against communism. We wasted many years and billions of dollars fighting against this bullshit. No one has been able to make it work, no one. Look at all the good we could have accopmlished if we were free to spend that money fighting diseases like cancer. Communism was a cancer. We fought it, and we won. That money could have been better spent advancing the world of science, and medicine. We could have had permeant settlements on other planets by now if we weren't busy wasting our time fighting this commie bullshit. You remind me of that redneck in the south waving his confederate battle flag. His battle is over. Long over. He lost. So did you. Suck it up and deal. The world has moved on. We have passed you by. We have new battles to fight now. You have been relegated to the pages of history. Is it the B or the buy that you don't get?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:39 am
 


"Permanent settlements on other planets"?

Wouldn't have even gotten to the fucking moon.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:54 am
 


rickc wrote:
romanP wrote:
let's see how many squares Bart can ping before this thread is dead!

Why are you singling Bart out? I would go on the record to say that the vast majority of people on CKA would say that communism was a failed experiment.


because Bart is most vocal about it, and it'll be fun to watch him jump and dance like he does.

Quote:
Many of the middle of the roaders, and left of centers on this forum served in the armed forces and were willing to risk their lives against communism. We wasted many years and billions of dollars fighting against this bullshit.


here's a verse of a favourite song by Phil Ochs that's applicable here:

Quote:
I cheered when Humphrey was chosen
My faith in the system restored
I'm glad the commies were thrown out
of the AFL-CIO board
I love Puerto Ricans and Negros
as long as they don't move next door
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal!


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No one has been able to make it work, no one.


not true. the Zapatistas are doing it right now. the Kurdish resistance are doing it right now. i do it every time i go to a union meeting. many others have been successful, only to have their efforts murderously crushed by fascists, including the Paris commune, and the CNT-FAI in Catelonia during the Spanish civil war, which the Canadian Mackenzie-Papineau Brigade supported in the fight against Franco's fascism.

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Look at all the good we could have accopmlished if we were free to spend that money fighting diseases like cancer.


indeed, think of the advances we could have made by now if capitalists were not so busy collecting profits from information locked away by copyright and patent, and weren't relying on government handouts to prop up failing business that has no excuse for continuing to exist.

all wars are boss' wars.

Quote:
Communism was a cancer. We fought it, and we won.


"communism", as the ignorant like to put it, was really capitalism carried out to its worst possible end. the Soviet Union collapsed under its own oppression the same way Sears has tanked because its most recent CEO was a big fan of Ayn Rand and he turned the company so toxic no one wanted to keep working in it.


Quote:
That money could have been better spent advancing the world of science, and medicine. We could have had permeant settlements on other planets by now if we weren't busy wasting our time fighting this commie bullshit.


it has always been a war of capitalists versus capitalists, despite what one side told you.

Image
[actual newspaper copy of an anti-war ad from the first world war]

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You remind me of that redneck in the south waving his confederate battle flag. His battle is over. Long over. He lost. So did you. Suck it up and deal. The world has moved on. We have passed you by. We have new battles to fight now. You have been relegated to the pages of history. Is it the B or the buy that you don't get?


are you sure you're not a Stalinist? because you sound like one. i've met several, and they all talk just like that.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:05 am
 


Public_Domain wrote:
"Permanent settlements on other planets"?

Wouldn't have even gotten to the fucking moon.

Well we have been to the fucking moon on numerous occasions. All of them occured during a period known as: the cold war. You were not alive during that period. I was. No one that lived under communism wants to return to it. It was a failed experiment. Someone sold you a bill of goods. You have spent your entire life living in a capitalist country,and enjoying the benefits. You have never left Canada. You have never spent one day in a country living under communism. You have no idea how fucked up the world can be. Get a passport. Travel some. Visit some workers paradises. Get back with us.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:28 am
 


let me do a little experiment.

i'm the president of the United States.

do you believe me?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:34 am
 


Quote:
No one that lived under communism wants to return to it.
Since you mean the USSR, I need to say that that statement is false. I don't believe the USSR and their satellite states really are "communism" as you insist, but I am aware that there is actually popular reactionary "communist nostalgia" in many eastern european countries, which isn't really that surprising. The soviets were around for over 70 years, it's a little silly to say no one.

Other than that, settle down on the brave words and empty McCarthyian propaganda. America had its fucked up part in the Cold War itself... Causing events still troubling us to this day. How fucked the world can be indeed. Consider learning some more about politics. I'm not a Soviet, and it'd only do you good to learn the difference between a Soviet and myself or romanP. Insisting on using half-century old thought-terminating cliches and telling me to go to war is just poor political talk. If you don't want to talk, that's fine, but cut it with this "get out of my country" horseshit. :roll:

My statement by the way, about not getting to the moon, is actually pretty likely. Without the piss contest, America had almost no motivation at all to go to space. For all of America's happy dealings with the scientists they got through the Nazi rat lines, the real honour should be given to the Germans. The last time man was on the moon was 1972, three years before my mother was born. So sorry if I have a little bit of a hard time relating to that silly piece of Americana.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:58 am
 


romanP wrote:
let me do a little experiment.

i'm the president of the United States.

do you believe me?


You wouldn't make it nor be alive.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:45 am
 


and now a message from a Toronto teachers' union!

Quote:
Today, someone said to me "I don't see what you are all worried about, you guys get paid while you strike. Your union covers that!!"

I am writing this piece now to clear the air and dispel any myths the public at large has about our rotating strikes this week:

Firstly, we will NOT be getting paid for our strike days, not one single red cent. Can you please step back for a moment and imagine the power that my last sentence carries? Teachers across the province voted to GIVE UP six days salary to protest cuts in education. We are relinquishing 2.5 percent of our yearly salary in order to stand with our colleagues and say ENOUGH, we can not, and will not take any more!

I AM GIVING UP MY SALARY to protest against our government's decision to increase class size at the elementary level to as many as 40 children per room.

I AM GIVING UP MY SALARY to refuse the 'uncoding' of special needs children. Our government wants to pretend that these students no longer have special needs, essentially cutting all resource budgets and personnel hired to provide special services for them in the classroom.

I AM GIVING UP MY SALARY because if our government gets their way, all teachers and support staff hired as of 2010 will lose their jobs, because classrooms filled to capacity with children who no longer need support will no longer require added staff to work in our schools.

WE ARE GIVING UP OUR SALARIES so that our craft be recognized. We are not babysitters. We are men and women with university degrees who specialize in educating children. We do this with passion and with determination every single day. We do more than what is outlined in the Education Act. We are teachers, but we are also mothers and fathers, psychologists, mediators, nurses and therapists to those children who share our rooms with us. Not just once in awhile.....every single day.
We go above and beyond what is contractually required of us because we care. We love what we do. We are committed to the education and well being of each and every one of our students. Giving up 6 days of our salary to change conditions for learning in each and every classroom for the better is a huge commitment. It shows just how much we are willing to fight for your children. For their learning.

WE ARE ALL GIVING UP OUR SALARIES. Each and every one of us. Many of whom will suffer financially for a long time as a result of this strike. The state of education is in of chaos. Our budgets are being cut, our buildings are in disrepair and children with special needs are only increasing in our classrooms, with less and less in terms of resources to help them succeed. We are giving up our salary because we cannot take any more.

Please stand with us this week. For your children, for their schools, for their learning and for their future.

‪#‎weneedtotalk‬

Stacey Monk
MTA member
Cedarcrest school


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:46 am
 


Vamp018 wrote:
romanP wrote:
let me do a little experiment.

i'm the president of the United States.

do you believe me?


You wouldn't make it nor be alive.


that's not the point of my question. i'm asking you to take my statement at face value, regardless of what you do or don't know about me or what you might think of me.
do you believe that i am the president of the United States because i simply told you so?


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