[BeaverFever]

$1:

MPP Jack MacLaren booted from Tory caucus after video from 2012 emerges

Jack MacLaren allegedly speaks at a 2012 event
Progressive Conservative MPP Jack MacLaren has been kicked out of the Tory caucus over his alleged comments about Franco-Ontarians, language rights and misleading voters in order to get elected, in a video that has just surfaced.

580 CFRA has learned the party sent a written expulsion notice to MacLaren on Sunday morning, after it got wind of a video purportedly taken in late 2012.
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A statement from PC Leader Patrick Brown calls the video “the final straw” and says MacLaren has been expelled from the Tory caucus over the “unacceptable” comments.

The 23-minute video obtained by CFRA appears to show MacLaren speaking to a crowd when he is confronted by questions about “language fairness.” The video has not been authenticated by 580 CFRA or CTV Ottawa.

“When will I hear a politician actually bring that subject up,” challenges a man off screen at the 12:43 mark of the video, who identifies himself as a supporter of Canadians for Language Fairness.

According to its website, Canadians for Language Fairness is a group which calls for the government to “stop wasting our tax dollars” and “end the unfairness of official bilingualism.”

"Our children - their chances of employment are shrinking because of language disqualifications,” the man presses on.

“You don’t have to convince me with what’s wrong with French language in Eastern Ontario,” MacLaren appears to say in response.

As the man in the crowd continues challenging him, MacLaren explains his party's stance.

“You’re right but you won’t hear it because we’re trying to get elected and it will always be twisted and turned that the Liberal -” says MacLaren in the video, as he is interrupted mid-sentence.

“We have lots of things that we’re going to do that we won’t say to people before the election, because we won’t get elected,” he adds.

The video also shows an encounter between MacLaren and a woman who is arguing that Ontario does not have a significant French-speaking population.

“Between French immersion and all these French schools with the big Franco-Ontarian banners flying at them, there’s the illusion in Ontario that we are so French but we’re not,” says the woman.

“And you would get so many more votes if you stood up and spoke out for freedom of speech,” she adds, drawing loud applause from the crowd.

In response, MacLaren appears to raise his eyebrows and claps. “I hear you,” he says, pointing into the crowd.

PC Leader Patrick Brown says video is "the final straw”

PC Leader Patrick Brown released a statement to NewsTalk 580 CFRA, confirming MacLaren has been expelled from the Tory caucus as a result of this video.

"I am building a modern, inclusive Ontario PC Party - one where it doesn't matter where you're from, who you love, where you worship, what language you speak, or how much money you make," says Brown, in a written statement. “Unfortunately, I have come to the conclusion that Jack MacLaren does not share these values.”

Brown says MacLaren’s comments are “unacceptable” and calls the video “the final straw.”

"Each time Jack MacLaren is caught making disparaging or insensitive remarks about others he asks for forgiveness and a second chance. And a third chance. And a fourth. And each and every time, he has disappointed those who have put their trust in him,” reads the statement from Brown.

The statement from the PC leader says that MacLaren has repeatedly demonstrated unacceptable behavior and will not be a PC candidate in the next provincial election.

“This video is part of a pattern with Jack MacLaren,” says Brown, in the written response. “Clearly the real Jack MacLaren is the one we heard making derogatory comments towards women at the Carp Fair Men's Night, who published fake testimonials praising himself from fake constituents on his website, and who came out against a zero-tolerance policy against sexual abuse."

Last April MacLaren was ordered to take sensitivity training after telling a crude joke about Liberal MP Karen McCrimmon and her husband, during a "men's night" fundraiser in his riding.

He later faced further backlash for his remarks during a Queen's Park debate about a zero-tolerance policy on sexual abuse for health care professionals, when he said it would be "extraordinarily hard - overly harsh - on doctors."

Brown’s statement does not reveal when the Ontario PC Party became aware of the video, or when the party leader watched it.

Multiple attempts to reach out to Jack MacLaren for comment were unsuccessful at the time of publishing.

http://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/mobile/mpp-jac ... 1.3432696#

[Coach85]

Another anti-Conservative post from Beaver.

[BeaverFever]

Coach85 Coach85:

Another anti-Conservative post from Beaver.

Yeah so? I didn't write a single word in the news story, CTV did. Is it wrong to share the news?

Is CTV wrong for reporting it?

Are good non-partisan citizens supposed to keep this a secret?

How come thread after thread of Liberal bashing editorials from a whole cabal of conservative CKA members is acceptable but little old me can't even share factual news stories if they are unflattering to delicate conservative egos?

[Thanos]

1) Questioning spending on bilingualism where there's not enough minority French (or English in parts of Quebec) numbers to warrant such spending is legitimate and logical.

2) This should be entirely the responsibility of the federal government and the provinces shouldn't be duplicating services or spending that the feds are already doing on bilingualism.

3) That being said this is a third-rail issue. Thanks to the pearl-clutchers having a hissy fit whenever it's brought up, it's doom for any politician to question bilingualism in any manner. As it's one of our more obvious displays of Canadian "inclusiveness and diversity", and practically a tradition now, there's really no fighting it these days. That battle was lost back in the 1970's and there's no point to resurrecting it today.

[Coach85]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Coach85 Coach85:

Another anti-Conservative post from Beaver.

Yeah so? I didn't write a single word in the news story, CTV did. Is it wrong to share the news?

Is CTV wrong for reporting it?

Are good non-partisan citizens supposed to keep this a secret?

How come thread after thread of Liberal bashing editorials from a whole cabal of conservative CKA members is acceptable but little old me can't even share factual news stories if they are unflattering to delicate conservative egos?

News is great. Reporting is great. It keeps our governments honest.

Just noting your obvious motives.

Sharing the news is great, but when you share only news that supports your personal political point of view, don't be surprised when people point and take notice.(And chuckle)

[BeaverFever]

$1:

Sharing the news is great, but when you share only news that supports your personal political point of view, don't be surprised when people point and take notice.(And chuckle)
quote

The whole reason anyone posts anything on this site is to share their point of view. Have you ever posted anything about Liberals that wasn't critical of them?

90% of what conservatives post on here wouldn't even qualify as a viewpoint, more like one-sentence random insults. I don't see you policing them on every thread and imploring them to show impartiality. Nor do I see you practicing any of it yourself, for that matter.

[Coach85]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

$1:

Sharing the news is great, but when you share only news that supports your personal political point of view, don't be surprised when people point and take notice.(And chuckle)
quote

The whole reason anyone posts anything on this site is to share their point of view. Have you ever posted anything about Liberals that wasn't critical of them?

90% of what conservatives post on here wouldn't even qualify as a viewpoint, more like one-sentence random insults. I don't see you policing them on every thread and imploring them to show impartiality. Nor do I see you practicing any of it yourself, for that matter.

I have, but I wouldn't expect you to read anything beyond the negative. I haven't really shared many articles, kinda new to this.

It's just funny to see how obvious you are with your motives. I'm not interested in policing you or anyone....it's an open forum for discussion.

[BeaverFever]

The closest thing I've seen you post is a lament that the CPC doesn't have an identity and will be in opposition for a while.

Look - there is a difference between Liberal Party and liberal. I am the latter and I don't have to apologize fior it. Nor do I have a post a criticism of Liberals every time I post a criticism of conservatives to provide "balanced coverage" as if I'm CNN or something.

What is the behaviour that you expect from me, and that you think you (and presumably the other members you've spared from criticism) currently model?

I think fiscal conservatism and government austerity are harmful and wrong-headed and I have repeatedly denounced Liberal Party leaders like Chretien, Martin and Ignatieff for drinking that kool-aid. If Trudeau or Wynne go down that road they will be dead to me also, although it's unlikely for Wynne and while Trudeau still has a lot to prove, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt on his early blunders (election reform, defecit projections, both of which I criticized on this site) as he's still a relative noob.


I deliberately withheld any comment on this story when I posted it so that the conversation would hopefully be about the story instead of about me (for all the good it did).

Well here's my 2 cents on the topic:

First, I don't understand what the fuss is about French. If you don't want your kids to learn it then don't enroll them there. It's such a small part of the overall education system, complaining about the costs is just a pretext. It's just such a minor and outdated issue. Learning a second language is an advantage, not a disadvantage. The 90s called and want their identity politics back. Just move past it.

Second, I get what Brown was trying to do and I think if he keeps up stuff like this he could build a competive party, maybe even by 2018. A look back at his brief history as leader is telling:

It's funny, he rode to victory in the leadership race as a relatively unknown and seemingly "far right" social conservative, mostly by signing up new the "ethnic" members he stirred up with sex-ed hysteria and winning by default when the vote was widely divided between several more famous candidates. But then a funny thing happened...that horse he rode in on, well he dismounted and shot it right infront of everyone. In an op-ed letter he admitted he was wrong on sex-ed and denounced the movement as extremist and recast himself as a moderate (and let's face it, all those socially conservative Muslim supporters probably weren't going to be politically helpful in the long run anyway). Then at the PC convention, he declares man-made climate change is real, that he supports carbon pricing and "never again will our candidates and volunteers have to defend faith-based funding or 100,000 job cuts at the front doors of Ontario’s voters.”

According to the National Post:

$1:

In his keynote, Brown made a point of inviting union members, immigrants, gays, lesbians, and the poor to join the Progressive Conservatives.

“It doesn’t matter who you love. It doesn’t matter if you belong to a union. It doesn’t matter how much you make. It doesn’t matter where you worship,” he said. “You have a home in the Progressive Conservative party of Ontario.”

Diversifying the party is an essential component of the Progressive Conservatives’ 2018 election strategy, which was presented to delegates in broad strokes. Campaign chair Walied Soliman told the convention that the party will not concede to the Liberals any group of voters: not teachers, nurses, public servants, union members or immigrants.

https://www.google.ca/amp/news.national ... on-tax/amp

Brown had to turf this guy to show people inside and outside the party that he is transforming the party and putting an end to the identity politics baggage (Feminists! Queers! Immigrants! French! Etc!) that comes along with being on the right wing side of the spectrum. He's moving the party left towards to the centre and if he keeps it up he'll be rewarded for it.

[Coach85]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Look - there is a difference between Liberal Party and liberal. I am the latter and I don't have to apologize fior it. Nor do I have a post a criticism of Liberals every time I post a criticism of conservatives to provide "balanced coverage" as if I'm CNN or something.

What is the behaviour that you expect from me, and that you think you (and presumably the other members you've spared from criticism) currently model?

To be blunt, I don't expect anything besides entertainment. Perhaps I was wrong, but upon entering this forum, I thought it would have been a place to discuss ideas.

Instead, we have a handful of people on each side of the political spectrum, posting anti-Conservative, anti-Liberal stuff to have the same conversations over and over. "My guy is right, your guy sucks"...."Yea, but your guy did the same thing".

What I would hope from you and fellow Canadians is that we can put aside politics and have an open-minded and unbiased conversation about what's best for all. I don't brush off ideas or people just because of the source of that idea.

I get that your purpose here is to promote liberal policies, highlight any and all conservative misdeeds, but in the end, that's just the type of conversation that solves nothing in the grand scheme of thing.

So while I had hoped for some open-minded debate, I've settled for being entertained, for the most part, by the partisanship from both sides of the political spectrum.

[BeaverFever]

Coach85 Coach85:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Look - there is a difference between Liberal Party and liberal. I am the latter and I don't have to apologize fior it. Nor do I have a post a criticism of Liberals every time I post a criticism of conservatives to provide "balanced coverage" as if I'm CNN or something.

What is the behaviour that you expect from me, and that you think you (and presumably the other members you've spared from criticism) currently model?

To be blunt, I don't expect anything besides entertainment. Perhaps I was wrong, but upon entering this forum, I thought it would have been a place to discuss ideas.

Instead, we have a handful of people on each side of the political spectrum, posting anti-Conservative, anti-Liberal stuff to have the same conversations over and over. "My guy is right, your guy sucks"...."Yea, but your guy did the same thing".

What I would hope from you and fellow Canadians is that we can put aside politics and have an open-minded and unbiased conversation about what's best for all. I don't brush off ideas or people just because of the source of that idea.

I get that your purpose here is to promote liberal policies, highlight any and all conservative misdeeds, but in the end, that's just the type of conversation that solves nothing in the grand scheme of thing.

So while I had hoped for some open-minded debate, I've settled for being entertained, for the most part, by the partisanship from both sides of the political spectrum.

Depends on the thread

[JaredMilne]

Thanos Thanos:

1) Questioning spending on bilingualism where there's not enough minority French (or English in parts of Quebec) numbers to warrant such spending is legitimate and logical.

2) This should be entirely the responsibility of the federal government and the provinces shouldn't be duplicating services or spending that the feds are already doing on bilingualism.

3) That being said this is a third-rail issue. Thanks to the pearl-clutchers having a hissy fit whenever it's brought up, it's doom for any politician to question bilingualism in any manner. As it's one of our more obvious displays of Canadian "inclusiveness and diversity", and practically a tradition now, there's really no fighting it these days. That battle was lost back in the 1970's and there's no point to resurrecting it today.

Of course, in my experience many of the same people who get up in arms about French being promoted inside Ontario or other Anglo-majority provinces are also adamant that Quebec accommodate English, all in the name of equal rights for all, special rights for none.

Exactly how demanding that Quebec accommodate its Anglo minority, while also going nuts at the notion that the Francophone minorities in other parts of the country be accommodated the same way, equates to equal treatment for everyone is something I've never understood, much less heard anyone explain coherently.

[JaredMilne]

Coach85 Coach85:

To be blunt, I don't expect anything besides entertainment. Perhaps I was wrong, but upon entering this forum, I thought it would have been a place to discuss ideas.

Instead, we have a handful of people on each side of the political spectrum, posting anti-Conservative, anti-Liberal stuff to have the same conversations over and over. "My guy is right, your guy sucks"...."Yea, but your guy did the same thing".

What I would hope from you and fellow Canadians is that we can put aside politics and have an open-minded and unbiased conversation about what's best for all. I don't brush off ideas or people just because of the source of that idea.

I get that your purpose here is to promote liberal policies, highlight any and all conservative misdeeds, but in the end, that's just the type of conversation that solves nothing in the grand scheme of thing.

So while I had hoped for some open-minded debate, I've settled for being entertained, for the most part, by the partisanship from both sides of the political spectrum.

This forum used to be like that, as recently as last year.

Unfortunately, between an absentee owner and a lot of people leaving for many of the reasons you describe, things aren't what they used to be around here.

[Thanos]

JaredMilne JaredMilne:

Thanos Thanos:

1) Questioning spending on bilingualism where there's not enough minority French (or English in parts of Quebec) numbers to warrant such spending is legitimate and logical.

2) This should be entirely the responsibility of the federal government and the provinces shouldn't be duplicating services or spending that the feds are already doing on bilingualism.

3) That being said this is a third-rail issue. Thanks to the pearl-clutchers having a hissy fit whenever it's brought up, it's doom for any politician to question bilingualism in any manner. As it's one of our more obvious displays of Canadian "inclusiveness and diversity", and practically a tradition now, there's really no fighting it these days. That battle was lost back in the 1970's and there's no point to resurrecting it today.

Of course, in my experience many of the same people who get up in arms about French being promoted inside Ontario or other Anglo-majority provinces are also adamant that Quebec accommodate English, all in the name of equal rights for all, special rights for none.

Exactly how demanding that Quebec accommodate its Anglo minority, while also going nuts at the notion that the Francophone minorities in other parts of the country be accommodated the same way, equates to equal treatment for everyone is something I've never understood, much less heard anyone explain coherently.

The more anger an issue generates the less likely there is to be any coherence. This is why Tories have moved away from the appearance of criticizing bilingualism as far as they can and will quickly gas anyone in a caucus that mouths off about it. Proximity to Quebec is a factor too. A politician in the Maritimes or out West might have gotten away with it. In Ontario though, with those morons in Brockville twenty-five years ago wiping their feet during a demonstration on a Quebec flag still being a vivid memory? Nah, that's not going to fly these days. I can't see the Tory leader in Ontario getting too much criticism for turfing one of the underlings who was reviving an old malice that most normal people don't want to see reborn.