[Zipperfish]

travior wrote:

I've been a member of a few Christian denominations: Presbyterian, Lutheran, Baptist and have been to the services of Methodist, Penticostal, Church of God, etc.

Yes, I believe in God. Christ said that the Gospel will sound "foolish to the wise."

I belive that one reason that fewer people belive in God has a lot to do with the liberal media and insitutions of higher education. Now that we are no longer allowed to talk about God in schools, the teachers that still believe are not allowed to express their beliefs in class. Slowly, the faculties at colleges have been becoming more liberal in their viewpoints. Therefore, our children are ever more being exposed to the idea that there is no God and that they are in sole control of their destiny and that there are no reprocussions for their choices and actions.

Funny how there has been no study to cmopare the elimination of religion from schools to the increase in crime for the generations that no longer hear about God in school.

The only reason that Christianity will cease is because we have been browbeaten to keep our mouths shut. Any time we speak up we get slapped down as being intolerant to other beliefs or viewpoints. Never mind if our beliefs and viewpoints get trashed.

You make some excellent points. However, in rebuttal, would it really be fair to those of other faiths to have Christianity as the only accepted religion taught in school. Why not Judaism, or Islam, or Buddhism? You may say that we were a country founded on Christian principles--true enough--but we also have a Constitutional freedom of religion. Having public schools teach only Christinaity would infringe upon that, I think.

Also, keep in mind that the Bible says some pretty hardcore stuff--it explicitly instructs its followers to kill gays and witches. I don't really want my kid exposed to that.

And kids are exposed to certain values in school that are seen as "good" by most religions--sharing, charity, protecting the weak, etc.

Christianity should be a choice.

[travior]

ShepherdsDog wrote:

As long as someone isn't getting in your face with their views, the religious and irreligious should let each have their own views without ridiculing the other. The problem begins when one tries to save the other either from they perceive to be damnation or ignorance.

I agree with that statement. One of the things that we Christians tend to forget is that God has instructed us to spread the gospel to the world but NOT to judge the world. Judgement is reserved for God alone.

We are also instructed to hate the sin but love the sinner. Sadly, that one is overlooked as well.

One of Christ's commands to his desciples was to enter a city and share the message. If they were rejected, they were to shake the dust from their feet and move on to the next place. He never said for us to keep cramming it down their throats.

[RUEZ]

Zipperfish wrote:

Christianity should be a choice.

I don't think I've ever agreed with you more than I do today.

[Arctic_Menace]

travior wrote:

ShepherdsDog wrote:

As long as someone isn't getting in your face with their views, the religious and irreligious should let each have their own views without ridiculing the other. The problem begins when one tries to save the other either from they perceive to be damnation or ignorance.

I agree with that statement. One of the things that we Christians tend to forget is that God has instructed us to spread the gospel to the world but NOT to judge the world. Judgement is reserved for God alone.

We are also instructed to hate the sin but love the sinner. Sadly, that one is overlooked as well.

One of Christ's commands to his desciples was to enter a city and share the message. If they were rejected, they were to shake the dust from their feet and move on to the next place. He never said for us to keep cramming it down their throats.

Okay, see? Now you Sir, are my kind of Christian...

[Zipperfish]

RUEZ wrote:

Zipperfish wrote:

Christianity should be a choice.

I don't think I've ever agreed with you more than I do today.

Well, then there's hope for us all, buddy!

[travior]

Zipperfish wrote:

You make some excellent points. However, in rebuttal, would it really be fair to those of other faiths to have Christianity as the only accepted religion taught in school. Why not Judaism, or Islam, or Buddhism? You may say that we were a country founded on Christian principles--true enough--but we also have a Constitutional freedom of religion. Having public schools teach only Christinaity would infringe upon that, I think.

Also, keep in mind that the Bible says some pretty hardcore stuff--it explicitly instructs its followers to kill gays and witches. I don't really want my kid exposed to that.

And kids are exposed to certain values in school that are seen as "good" by most religions--sharing, charity, protecting the weak, etc.

Christianity should be a choice.

I agree, Christianity IS and should be a choice. I didn't say I wanted it taught in school. I said that we are no longer free to openly discuss our views at school without being slapped on the hand.

And I do not support burning witches at the stake.

Christ's words are the instructions that Christians are supposed to follow. The stoning of gays and witches are generally in books of the Bible that were written by men inspired by God. Noone knows if those were the exact words that God put in their minds to write or if they allowed some of their own feelings to influence what they wrote.

All I know for sure is that Jesus Christ was the Son of God. Through my belief in Him, my life is saved from eteral damnation. I will not force my views upon you. I can only tell you what I believe. One way or the other, one day we will all find out whether there is a God or not. Either non-believers will get the shock of their eternal lives, or we will fade to black.

[Arctic_Menace]

Quote:

I agree, Christianity IS and should be a choice. I didn't say I wanted it taught in school. I said that we are no longer free to openly discuss our views at school without being slapped on the hand.

Forgive me, but you shouldn't be allowed to discuss that at school.

If you want your kids and other kids to learn about Christianity, talk to them yourself about it or send them to church about it. Don't ask the many taxpayers who are not Christian and do not believe in what you do to fund your ideas in a school.

For me, the lines between church, state and science should never be blurred or crossed...

[travior]

Another point is one that many Christians forget about or try to forget:

There is a very good chance that there WILL be Muslims, Buddists, etc in Heaven after judgment by God. He stated that those that have not had the chance to hear His word would be tried seperately. If they lived a life that was, for lack of a better phrase, "close enough" to what he required, that they would be found to be good and allowed to enter into the Kingdom.

And there will be lots of children there as well, from all religons. Those that are too young to understand or do not have the mental capacity to understand and decide for themselves will not be judged under God's grace. Those will be allowed into the Kingdom as well.

- Once again, that is my belief in the litteral reading of Christ's words -

[Arctic_Menace]

Quote:

Either non-believers will get the shock of their eternal lives, or we will fade to black.

or it turns out that Christianity and everyone else is wrong, and God is nothing like what anyone has thought or what anyone has been told...

[lily]

Arctic_Menace wrote:

Quote:

I agree, Christianity IS and should be a choice. I didn't say I wanted it taught in school. I said that we are no longer free to openly discuss our views at school without being slapped on the hand.

Forgive me, but you shouldn't be allowed to discuss that at school.

If you want your kids and other kids to learn about Christianity, talk to them yourself about it or send them to church about it. Don't ask the many taxpayers who are not Christian and do not believe in what you do to fund your ideas in a school.

For me, the lines between church, state and science should never be blurred or crossed...

How are you going to learn about history and literature without having an understanding about religion?

I don't want religion taught in school - other than in religious studies classes - but I don't want it *banned* from any mention either.

[RUEZ]

Arctic_Menace wrote:

Forgive me, but you shouldn't be allowed to discuss that at school.

Why not? For some religion is no more real than the Gods of ancient Rome, but we all learned about those in school. I think a discussion about religion at school is quite appropriate, so long as your teacher isn't trying to convert you. I would have had no problem discussing the religions of Asia and the middle east in a social studies class.

[travior]

Arctic_Menace wrote:

Quote:

Either non-believers will get the shock of their eternal lives, or we will fade to black.

or it turns out that Christianity and everyone else is wrong, and God is nothing like what anyone has thought or what anyone has been told...

Point

[Arctic_Menace]

travior wrote:

Another point is one that many Christians forget about or try to forget:

There is a very good chance that there WILL be Muslims, Buddists, etc in Heaven after judgment by God. He stated that those that have not had the chance to hear His word would be tried seperately. If they lived a life that was, for lack of a better phrase, "close enough" to what he required, that they would be found to be good and allowed to enter into the Kingdom.

And there will be lots of children there as well, from all religons. Those that are too young to understand or do not have the mental capacity to understand and decide for themselves will not be judged under God's grace. Those will be allowed into the Kingdom as well.

- Once again, that is my belief in the litteral reading of Christ's words -

I can more or less believe in that, but I also leave the door open to the possibility that there is no God or Christ or anything like that, and that Christians turn out to be wrong...

[Brenda]

RUEZ wrote:

Arctic_Menace wrote:

Forgive me, but you shouldn't be allowed to discuss that at school.

Why not? For some religion is no more real than the Gods of ancient Rome, but we all learned about those in school. I think a discussion about religion at school is quite appropriate, so long as your teacher isn't trying to convert you. I would have had no problem discussing the religions of Asia and the middle east in a social studies class.

I also think it is a good think to be taught about it in school. You can't make up your mind if you only know one side of a story... You can't call yourself an Atheist without knowledge of religion, and you can't call yourself religious just for the sake of it, if you think religion, Atheism or being agnostic is a choice.

But teach every religion. Not just Christianity...

[Arctic_Menace]

RUEZ wrote:

Arctic_Menace wrote:

Forgive me, but you shouldn't be allowed to discuss that at school.

Why not? For some religion is no more real than the Gods of ancient Rome, but we all learned about those in school. I think a discussion about religion at school is quite appropriate, so long as your teacher isn't trying to convert you. I would have had no problem discussing the religions of Asia and the middle east in a social studies class.

You misunderstand me. I don't mind talking about religion in terms of: "The people of <blank> tend to follow the religion of <blank> and here are some of their beliefs..."

I DO however have a problem with this: "Evolution is wrong. This is how it REALLY happened..."

I have a problem with people trying to propagate their beliefs and views in a classroom, but I have no problem with people asking that a little education about their religion is taught in schools.