[tritium]

RUEZ wrote:

Two loving Mom's or two loving Dad's couldn't be worse than some of the families out there, including the one I grew up in.

Sorry to hear that RUEZ, at least you came out of it intellectually-smart.. (judging by your posts)

[RUEZ]

tritium wrote:

RUEZ wrote:

Two loving Mom's or two loving Dad's couldn't be worse than some of the families out there, including the one I grew up in.

Sorry to hear that RUEZ, at least you came out of it intellectually-smart.. (judging by your posts)

That's debatable.

[novachick]

tritium wrote:

novachick wrote:

WTF "queers" . Damn I'm glad you don't get to define what constitutes a family. What happened to the 50's style era. Women stopped putting up with their husbands beating the crap out of them . Women realized they were still a family without a man present. Men realized they were still a family without a woman present.

Hold on, you sure you're NOT my sister

Same line she gives me when we have this agrument.

You know not all husbands abused their wives and there were plenty of 50 year marriages with happy couples.

I'm not saying that it was 100% perfect, there was still segregation and lots of discrimination and racial divide.

But it was a more wholesome time in history.

No not all husbands abuse their wives, nor do all women abuse their husband ( that is something that still needs to brought out of the closet so to speak). It was not a more wholesome time. It was just a time in which things were hidden.

Who said you can't have a baby just because you don't have a wife. Surrogate, adoption? Lots of men raise children without women and do a damn fine job.

[novachick]

RUEZ wrote:

Two loving Mom's or two loving Dad's couldn't be worse than some of the families out there, including the one I grew up in.

I hear you better to come from a broken home than to live in one.

[travior]

I, personally, do not agree with gay marriage. I do agree that it is yet another issue that has lead to the erosion of the family unit. I will not get into the morality of it. I understand that the people that have that orientation have little or no control over their feelings in regards to the matter. I understand that there are many medical reasons that it can manifest itself. Ever hear about the woman that has two unique sets of DNA in her body? They finally discovered that it appears that there was a second embryo that did not survive and that the genetic material of the two embryos somehow merged together. Her blood and skin had one DNA and her skeleton had another. She temporarially lost custody of her child because of it. So, I do not see why it is not possible for it to happen more frequently than previously thought and possibly more people have mixed DNA and there is no reason to think that the two sets could have been from two different sexes and merged into one.

However, that being said, I would support something along the lines of an enhanced-power-of-attorney or mutual-beneficiary agreement that would allow gay people to have the same rights as a married couple. I do not agree with gay marriage. It sends too much confusion into society. Our society is screwed up bad enough as it is.

I am sure that gay couples can raise a child and that they can bestow just as much love as a heterosexual couple. But children need the influence of both sexes to be well rounded in their emotional growth. If the child has heterosexual tendencies and is raised in a homosexual environment, it will be more confusing for them to understand his/her role in a normal romantic relationship.

If we condone homosexual relationships, then why stop there? Let's legalize polygomy. If two men or two women can be a family unit, why not two men and one woman or one man and two women?

I will not bash homosexuals, I will not judge them. But I do not have to run out in the streets and rejoice because of their "victory" either. The courts are the primary reason from the success of thier agenda. Legislation by litigation is a piss-poor way of doing things.

You can blast my stance on this if you like. I'm trying to be as respectful about it as I can. Nothing you will say will change my viewpoint on it and I mearly am speaking to provide a counterpoint to this issue. And, believe it or not, I can honestly say that I have a gay friend. He knows my views on the issue and we have an agreement to disagree on it but we do not let it get in the way of our friendship. I have supported him even when his own family would not.

But, speaking as a white, male, heterosexual, I am tired of being bashed and called racist or homophobic when I disagree with the current populist movement or minority group of the time. My ethnic/gender/orientation has virtually no rights anymore. Reverse-discrimination is out of control. I know that there is no way of turning back the clock to the 50's, I wish that we could just get along without all the extra legal interventions and protections for all these special interest groups.

Anyone should have the same opportunity based on their qualifications. Period.

[tritium]

westmanguy wrote:

Wow I don't want to get into a debate about this, but I can't leave what you said unchallenged...

1) 'Flaunting their sexuality'. Hmm, okay first of all when you're the majority, you can't be flaunting anything. Next off how many sluts woman do you see dressed half naked on the city streets? How come if its a man and woman sitting on a park bench holding hands its "aww isn't that nice?", but if its two guys doing the same thing, sitting on a park bench, holding hands, its called "flaunting their sexuality". Gimme a break. There are sluts and flaunters of sexuality in both gay and straight people.

'Flaunting their sexuality'.

westmanguy wrote:

2) Isn't this good for family? We have a big faction of the population - millions of people - who want to get married and adopt children (who have no homes)...how is that not pro-family?

I was LUCKY enough to be adopted into a loving family when I was only a few months old.

No, I would not have liked to be adopted by a gay couple. Growing up is hard enough as a child without having that load to overcome.

Parent teacher night, here's my two daddy's. NOOOOOTTT!!!!

westmanguy wrote:

....here is what it's like for me, as a gay guy, when I hear people's reasons against gay marriage.

O.K. I have nothing against your lifestyle, what you do behind closed doors as an adult is entirely up to you.

I have gay friends, who repect my views, as I respect theirs. Yes the laws have moved forward, and I am not one of those nut jobs protesting... good for the couples who want to get married.

I will still be watching my westerns channel, GAC & CMT and Turner Classic Movies and still be wishing it was the 50's again.

westmanguy wrote:

Same thing, and thats how I see it...I can have a "civil union", but oh no, I can't be "married".

"civil union" As I said, I don't agree, but I don't protest. It's life, I roll with it, because in short in 30 years I will be dead, the dog will piss on my flowers and I will be forgotten...

[westmanguy]

wow...i can't respond to that without getting angry/tired.

Derby or someone else want to give it a shot?

[novachick]

travior wrote:

I, personally, do not agree with gay marriage. I do agree that it is yet another issue that has lead to the erosion of the family unit. I will not get into the morality of it. I understand that the people that have that orientation have little or no control over their feelings in regards to the matter. I understand that there are many medical reasons that it can manifest itself. Ever hear about the woman that has two unique sets of DNA in her body? They finally discovered that it appears that there was a second embryo that did not survive and that the genetic material of the two embryos somehow merged together. Her blood and skin had one DNA and her skeleton had another. She temporarially lost custody of her child because of it. So, I do not see why it is not possible for it to happen more frequently than previously thought and possibly more people have mixed DNA and there is no reason to think that the two sets could have been from two different sexes and merged into one.

However, that being said, I would support something along the lines of an enhanced-power-of-attorney or mutual-beneficiary agreement that would allow gay people to have the same rights as a married couple. I do not agree with gay marriage. It sends too much confusion into society. Our society is screwed up bad enough as it is.

I am sure that gay couples can raise a child and that they can bestow just as much love as a heterosexual couple. But children need the influence of both sexes to be well rounded in their emotional growth. If the child has heterosexual tendencies and is raised in a homosexual environment, it will be more confusing for them to understand his/her role in a normal romantic relationship.

If we condone homosexual relationships, then why stop there? Let's legalize polygomy. If two men or two women can be a family unit, why not two men and one woman or one man and two women?

I will not bash homosexuals, I will not judge them. But I do not have to run out in the streets and rejoice because of their "victory" either. The courts are the primary reason from the success of thier agenda. Legislation by litigation is a piss-poor way of doing things.

You can blast my stance on this if you like. I'm trying to be as respectful about it as I can. Nothing you will say will change my viewpoint on it and I mearly am speaking to provide a counterpoint to this issue. And, believe it or not, I can honestly say that I have a gay friend. He knows my views on the issue and we have an agreement to disagree on it but we do not let it get in the way of our friendship. I have supported him even when his own family would not.

But, speaking as a white, male, heterosexual, I am tired of being bashed and called racist or homophobic when I disagree with the current populist movement or minority group of the time. My ethnic/gender/orientation has virtually no rights anymore. Reverse-discrimination is out of control. I know that there is no way of turning back the clock to the 50's, I wish that we could just get along without all the extra legal interventions and protections for all these special interest groups.

Anyone should have the same opportunity based on their qualifications. Period.

I can't agree that children need both sexes to be well rounded in emotional growth.
Children need love, support, guidance. The sex of the person or persons who a child that is irrelevant.

[DerbyX]

westmanguy wrote:

wow...i can't respond to that without getting angry/tired.

Derby or someone else want to give it a shot?

Say a good word about the Liberals and I will.

[novachick]

tritium wrote:

westmanguy wrote:

Wow I don't want to get into a debate about this, but I can't leave what you said unchallenged...

1) 'Flaunting their sexuality'. Hmm, okay first of all when you're the majority, you can't be flaunting anything. Next off how many sluts woman do you see dressed half naked on the city streets? How come if its a man and woman sitting on a park bench holding hands its "aww isn't that nice?", but if its two guys doing the same thing, sitting on a park bench, holding hands, its called "flaunting their sexuality". Gimme a break. There are sluts and flaunters of sexuality in both gay and straight people.

'Flaunting their sexuality'.

westmanguy wrote:

2) Isn't this good for family? We have a big faction of the population - millions of people - who want to get married and adopt children (who have no homes)...how is that not pro-family?

I was LUCKY enough to be adopted into a loving family when I was only a few months old.

No, I would not have liked to be adopted by a gay couple. Growing up is hard enough as a child without having that load to overcome.

Parent teacher night, here's my two daddy's. NOOOOOTTT!!!!

westmanguy wrote:

....here is what it's like for me, as a gay guy, when I hear people's reasons against gay marriage.

O.K. I have nothing against your lifestyle, what you do behind closed doors as an adult is entirely up to you.

I have gay friends, who repect my views, as I respect theirs. Yes the laws have moved forward, and I am not one of those nut jobs protesting... good for the couples who want to get married.

I will still be watching my westerns channel, GAC & CMT and Turner Classic Movies and still be wishing it was the 50's again.

westmanguy wrote:

Same thing, and thats how I see it...I can have a "civil union", but oh no, I can't be "married".

"civil union" As I said, I don't agree, but I don't protest. It's life, I roll with it, because in short in 30 years I will be dead, the dog will piss on my flowers and I will be forgotten...

If that were two women kissing you'd be cheering. Nuff said on that issue.

If the child in question is raised in a loving supportive home. Your opinion won't matter to them. Children come from homes of substance and physical abuse. Two loving daddies is not a bad thing.

I'm guessing your 50

[westmanguy]

oh my god...tritium...

since when do a few people speak for everyone?

Here is reality check for you. I don't support Gay Pride or Gay Pride Parades, I am as sickened and turned off by that as much as you probably are.

I want equality, and to be able to life my life in a normal manner. Gay Pride, in my opinion is equivalent to White Pride. You don't choose your skin colour, and you don't choose your sexual orientation, and in my opinion people should not be proud, nor ashamed of attributes about themselves (race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.) that they do not choose.

White pride is equitable to gay pride, and I condemn both.

I am gay. All that word means is I am attracted to the same sex, you have gotten sucked into the stereotypes to think "gay" means that entire media-propagated lifestyle.

And you know what:



How is that for flaunting your sexuality?

Just as I said in the "Lesbians asked to stop kissing at Seattle baseball game" thread, I don't give a damn if some social conservative parents haven't taught their children about gay people, when I get older, come out, and am in a relationship, I will hold hands, and maybe a small kiss out in public...just like any straight couple. I don't support this inane double standard. Now, straight or gay, if a couple is making out, getting really sexual, and indecent in public, and in front of children, stop 'em, for sure.

Anyways stop believing the media, and stop buying the stereotypes. Not all gay people dress in drag and do the gay pride parade every year.

Some of us (like me) just want to live a normal life, but without double standards...and did you also notice I was a Conservative?

[tritium]

novachick wrote:

If that were two women kissing you'd be cheering. Nuff said on that issue.

NO

novachick wrote:

If the child in question is raised in a loving supportive home. Your opinion won't matter to them. Children come from homes of substance and physical abuse. Two loving daddies is not a bad thing.

Agree to both disagree.

novachick wrote:

.I'm guessing your 50

Getting very close, yes.

So my views are pretty Liberal for an old fart, so roll with it. (...and yes I vote Liberal in Canada.)

But my sister who is older has more Liberal views. Maybe this is a gender thing?

[DerbyX]

Quote:

'Flaunting their sexuality'.

So what?

I have been to loads of pride parades in Brighton (UK) and Sydney (AUS) and sure they had the flamers but they also had far more who looked identical to me and were just out to have a good time.

The behaviour of some (and I don't disagree with it) does not invalidate the entire group.

Quote:

I was LUCKY enough to be adopted into a loving family when I was only a few months old.

No, I would not have liked to be adopted by a gay couple. Growing up is hard enough as a child without having that load to overcome.

Parent teacher night, here's my two daddy's. NOOOOOTTT!!!!

Its a good think we don't think of adoption as taking somebody elses mistakes anymore. Note: I don't think that.

You were LUCKY to have been adopted. You would have been perfectly OK with being adopted by a loving SSM family as it would have been all you would have known.

I hope your adoptive family didn't put those thoughts into your head.

Quote:

O.K. I have nothing against your lifestyle, what you do behind closed doors as an adult is entirely up to you.

I have gay friends, who repect my views, as I respect theirs. Yes the laws have moved forward, and I am not one of those nut jobs protesting... good for the couples who want to get married.

I will still be watching my westerns channel, GAC & CMT and Turner Classic Movies and still be wishing it was the 50's again.

Yes you do. When you tell them you won't tolerate them marrying, having children and families or doing anything but hiding behind closed doors you clearly have a big problem with it.

You just aren't disgusted enough to hunt them down as long as they agree to never ever show their true selves in public.

That my friend is what we call having a very large problem with them.

[westmanguy]

Also, by your logic, should children be taken away from single moms and dads? Thats not a "well-rounded" (by your standard) family unit now, is it?

Derby: I disagree with the economic agenda of the Liberals, but I will always say this for the Liberal Party. They were the party that decriminalized gay relations (Trudeau's one pro trait in my book), they were the party that brought in civil unions, equal rights legislation, and 4 years ago, same sex marriage. I will always recognize that, and as partisan as I get sometimes, the LPoC has a soft spot in my heart because of it. And I would be a Liberal supporter today if same sex marriage wasn't a settled issue in Canada. Thankfully, I can be a CPoC supporter, because gay rights is now (finally) a dead issue in our country, because under the law (with a few minor exceptions of disparity in age of consent ages, and donating blood) its all equal now.

[travior]

I can accept that others will not agree with my views on this point. I also know that there are many kids that have grown up in single-sex or single-parent environments and have been perfectly fine. (my two nephews are a great example). Usually, these kids are lucky to have a role-model, either in their parent or another family member or friend that can help provide them with a good example of how the opposite sex is supposed to behave. (ie: not beating up their loved ones, etc.)

I will also agree that there are many cases of kids that grew up in heterosexual, stable, loving homes that turned out unhinged and become some of the dregs of society.

I just cannot agree with the homosexual marriage. Civil union - fine. The word marriage will always be closely identified with the church. I know that some churches have wavered on the homosexual issue. That is between those churches and God to argue about on Judgement day.

You can call me a fanatic if you like, but I will not deviate from what the Christ has commanded. He said that in the end times that these events will come about. I know that this is yet another indication that our days are short on this earth. I will not judge the gay community but I will not condone it. All I can do is try to show them why what I believe is the truth. Whether they accept it or not is between them and God. It is not a Christian's responsibility to judge. Christ specifically ordered against that. He said that judgement/vengence is His and His alone. It is our duty to spread the Gospel and share the love of Christ.