[faile]

hurley_108 wrote:

faile wrote:

2. If you're going to make a claim like "AND IT COST LESS" please let us know where you're getting this information. I've seen claims Canada spends twice as much per capita as the US on healthcare. Am I supposed to just believe you instead just because you wrote your claim in all caps?

It's actually common knowledge, but here's a link.

All the same, I suspect it's a lot easier for various capital costs, grants, etc to find their way through the system without ever being flagged as a 'health care cost' in a socialized system.

[ShintoMale]

according to the CIA world fact book Canada is 7th in life expectancy the U.S is 47th and recent news reports show that Canadians are healthier than Americans and we spend less money on health care

[ManifestDestiny]

Quote:

Hillary Clinton, Michael Moore and much of the mainstream media are incorrect when they claim the number of Americans without health insurance to be 40 to 50 million, with the actual number possibly under 10 million.

So says the Business and Media Institute, a Virginia-based division of the Media Research Center, a nonprofit watchdog organization designed to bring balance and responsibility to the media.

"The actual total is open to debate," says BMI analyst Julia Seymour. "But there are millions of people who should be excluded from that [high] tally, including: those who aren't American citizens, people who can afford their own insurance, and people who already qualify for government coverage but haven't signed up."

She notes government statistics also show 45 percent of people without insurance are not completely in dire straits, as they'll have coverage again within four months after switching jobs.

"Accounting for all those factors, one prominent study places the total for the long-term uninsured as low as 8.2 million – a very different reality than the media and national health care advocates claim," said Seymour.

The BMI report notes the number of the uninsured who are not U.S. citizens is nearly 10 million on its own, invalidating all the claims of 40-plus million "Americans" without health insurance.

In a May 31 speech, Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., said: "It's really indefensible that we now have more than 45 million uninsured Americans, 9 million of whom are children, and the vast majority of whom are from working families."

ABC News medical expert Dr. Tim Johnson cited the incorrect data as he praised a "bold" and "politically brilliant" universal health-coverage plan on the April 26 edition of "Good Morning America."

"It's bold because it does propose to cover all Americans, including the 47 million now who are uninsured, within five years," said Johnson.

Seymour also labeled Michael Moore's new film "SiCKO" as a "propagandumentary" and pointed out the director's website claims a very high number of uninsured: "There are nearly 50 million Americans without health insurance."

She says subtracting non-citizens and those who can afford their own insurance but choose not to purchase it, about 20 million people are left – less than 7 percent of the population.

"Many Americans are uninsured by choice," wrote Dr. David Gratzer in his book, "The Cure: How Capitalism Can Save American Health Care." Gratzer cited a study of the "nonpoor uninsured" from the California Healthcare Foundation.

"Why the lack of insurance [among people who own homes and computers]? One clue is that 60 percent reported being in excellent health or very good health," explained Gratzer.

"Proponents of universal health care often use the 46-million figure – without context or qualification. It creates the false impression that a huge percentage of the population has fallen through the cracks," Gratzer told BMI. "Again, that's not to suggest that there is no problem, but it's very different than the universal-care crowd describes."

The Kaiser Family Foundation, a nonprofit group often quoted in news reports, puts the number of uninsured Americans who do not qualify for current government programs and make less than $50,000 a year between 8.2 million and 13.9 million, far less than the mantra of 40 to 50 million.

[ManifestDestiny]

Donny_Brasco wrote:

That is only because of you and she believes your bullshit.

Really? Or could it be that we have had two children here and she was impressed with the hospitals here? As compared to what her sister had in Toronto. Naaaaa your so smart you know everything.....and anyone that disagrees with you is a idiot

Quote:

I have many American friends who totally agree that they are being screwed. They wish they had the piece of mind that our public system offers.

And your friends have experienced Canadian healthcare vs. US healthcare? or do they just blow comments out of their asses like you do?

Quote:

Change your job...same healthcare...

lose you job...same healthcare...

have kids, cancer, car accident, fall off a building, into a manhole, suffer from depression, diabeties, whatever...you are covered because you are a Canadian!!

Yeah everyone besides really rich Canadians they just go to the USA and get healthcare.

Quote:

Try switching jobs and maybe insurance in the states...how comfortable do you feel?

Not problem to be honest with you. At least I have the choice to switch, you try to switch oops sorry you cant its against the law

[DerbyX]

Spending per person chart from nationmaster

Rank Countries Amount (top to bottom)
#1 United States: 4,271
#2 Switzerland: 3,857
#3 Norway: 3,182
#4 Denmark: 2,785
#5 Luxembourg: 2,731
#6 Iceland: 2,701
#7 Germany: 2,697
#8 France: 2,288
#9 Japan: 2,243
#10 Netherlands: 2,173
#11 Sweden: 2,145
#12 Belgium: 2,137
#13 Austria: 2,121
#14 Canada: 1,939
#15 Australia: 1,714
#16 Finland: 1,704
#17 Italy: 1,676
#18 United Kingdom: 1,675

If we want a better system then all we need to do is put more money in. Comparing our system to the US is useless and nothing more then a pissing contest. They are spending twice as much money per person then we are.

[Donny_Brasco]

Tricks wrote:

Universal health care is great if you can't afford it otherwise, but if one can, why are they denied it? In Ontario, puking blood won't get you into be checked by a doctor for at least 6-7 hours. Good times. I've been to the ER 3 times in the past month. Had to wait at least 4 -5 hours each time. Not to mention past problems with hospitals. Fucking sucks ass.

I have been to the ER many times...when I was seriously sick/injured there was no wait time. When I had to get 6 stitches in my foot for cutting it on some glass in a swimming pool I had to wait a few hours - it was a busy weekend.

When yyou might be dying the wait list is very short. When you have a booboo you might have to wait a while. I learned that if you just need a few stitches the walk-in clinic will do that for you fast...

[ManifestDestiny]

Donny_Brasco wrote:

Blaming your health care problems on immigrants is scapegoating and is racist.

Never did that, shame on you for using the race card to justify your hearsay! and non factual B.S.

[Donny_Brasco]

ManifestDestiny wrote:

Donny_Brasco wrote:

Blaming your health care problems on immigrants is scapegoating and is racist.

Never did that, shame on you for using the race card to justify your hearsay! and non factual B.S.

The fact is that we pay less for health care in Canada and we are healthier and we live longer.

Where is your arguement? How do you justify twice the cost with less return?

Divert your arguement where ever you want...the facts still do not change.

Canada's healthcare:

Half the cost

better health

longer life
compared to the American model.

[CommanderSock]

Why do we compare our working system with a failed one? Why?

Why do we compare so many of our successful domestic policies with failed ones?

Why?

[Regina]

Why do people with only a passing knowledge of either like to compare?

[Pseudonym]

Zing!

[Robair]

ManifestDestiny wrote:

Robair wrote:

My only experience with America's health care was at a party where a drunk girl broke her finger. And bad, it went straight sideways. I hadn't started drinking yet and said I could take her to the hospital. She looked at me like I was nuts and said "I can't afford a 70 dollar emergency room fee." One of her friends straitened her finger out and they put it on ice.

So let me get this straight she had enough money to drink and party but not enough to pay for hospital care? Sounds fishy

Any way, she would have been billed later not that moment, And if her finanaces were not good, she would not have paid at all. So if your story is true she was just stupid and drunk.

70 bucks is 70 bucks. It illustrates a point, doesn't it? In Canada you don't have to put cash in one hand, your health in the other, and weigh them against each other.

Don't know how intelligent she was, but she was a little tipsy for sure (hence the broken finger).

On the Sicko DVD, they have complete unedited versions of various interviews in the extra features section. I don't remember who she was, I don't remember the name of the study she just did, but I do remember this stat: She said that last year (which would have been the year before sicko came out) over 50% of the families that had to declare bankruptcy due to medical expenses had coverage. She had a breakdown of why families had to declare bankruptcy, and the vast majority were because of medical expenses.

Support H.R. 676

[CommanderSock]

What scares me most is the "pre-existing condition". If you have cancer for example, you can expect to die, die broke, or live broke, if you're middle class. I dont know how health care companies will give you coverage with a "pre-existing" condition.

[Regina]

CommanderSock wrote:

What scares me most is the "pre-existing condition". If you have cancer for example, you can expect to die, die broke, or live broke, if you're middle class. I dont know how health care companies will give you coverage with a "pre-existing" condition.

That's the case if you're buying traveling insurance, not work coverage.

[Tricks]

RUEZ wrote:

Tricks wrote:

Universal health care is great if you can't afford it otherwise, but if one can, why are they denied it? In Ontario, puking blood won't get you into be checked by a doctor for at least 6-7 hours. Good times. I've been to the ER 3 times in the past month. Had to wait at least 4 -5 hours each time. Not to mention past problems with hospitals. Fucking sucks ass.

I don't think that's a problem with Universal Healthcare. That's just a shortage of doctors and nurses. The problem is, provinces take money out of the system to balance budgets. That's what the BC Liberals did. I guess the problem is that governments budget what they think they can afford and not what the system needs.

That's the problem with Universal healthcare. The Docs and nurses don't get paid as much so they leave.