[Thanos]

I'm just wondering if "persecution" simply comes down to a realization that Christian moralists are no longer allowed to make the rules for everyone else, and that they regard this loss of power over society in general as the big bad secular atheists being mean to them.

Sob, sob, boo-hoo-hoo. My heart bleeds for you, what with you no longer possessing your so-called right to bully and terrorize those who didn't fit into your ridiculous black/white cultural order. If more Christians had been moral instead of moralist, hadn't sold their faith out for political power, had actually practised what they preach, and hadn't revealed that so many of their number are in reality slobbering-at-the-mouth hatemongering psychopaths, then maybe the rest of us would still respect their voice.

[BartSimpson]

Mr_Canada wrote:

Hey Bart, why should we have either?

Both cause wars, both have disgusting records, both limit people's human rights.

I think we should prosecute all religious people.

Bring it on.

[ShintoMale]

that article is nothing but the rantings of those with a persecution complex the last time a i check Christianity is still thriving in Canada and the U.S. i still see people going to church on sundays(saturdays if they are seventh day adventists), churches are all over the place, christian programming can be seen on sunday mornings and weekday mornings before 6 am and christian channels like CTS and the miracle channel are available on cable and satelite. christian schools and colleges are still around, etc and on shortwave radio frequencies you can here preaching from stations like family radio based in the U.S. family radio even have a program where they have a nightly program on the 49 metre band which they say "broadcasting to canada"

[BartSimpson]

Blue_Nose wrote:

Except the cab drivers refusing dogs and drunks aren't killing anyone, and the point xerxes was making is that they're being criticized for their own actions which don't fit into our secular culture, not because they share a religion with terrorists.

So Christian businesses who refuse atheists and homosexuals would be okay with you, too? Or is your latitude for religious discrimination reserved only for Muslims?

[BartSimpson]

ShintoMale wrote:

last time a i check Christianity is still thriving in Canada and the U.S.

Last time I checked the Canadian and US governments are really prosecuting people for their religious views.

[BartSimpson]

xerxes wrote:

Deuteronomy 17:

17:2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant,
17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel:
17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

That's Judaism and not Christianity in which Jesus said, "Let him among you who is without sin cast the first stone."

I cannot think of any instance where someone has been killed for leaving Christianity.

[Blue_Nose]

BartSimpson wrote:

So Christian businesses who refuse atheists and homosexuals would be okay with you, too? Or is your latitude for religious discrimination reserved only for Muslims?

Um, no, I didn't condone the Muslims' actions whatsoever, and my earlier posts says as much.

I wrote:

As far as I'm concerned, if your religion conflicts with your work, you're free to find another job.

I'm just pointing out, as xerxes had, that they weren't any different from several examples from your article, which it claims are unjust "persecution".

[ShintoMale]

BartSimpson wrote:

ShintoMale wrote:

last time a i check Christianity is still thriving in Canada and the U.S.

Last time I checked the Canadian and US governments are really prosecuting people for their religious views.

prosecuting? where? give an example where somebody is prosecuted because he/she is a christian

[BartSimpson]

ShintoMale wrote:

BartSimpson wrote:

ShintoMale wrote:

last time a i check Christianity is still thriving in Canada and the U.S.

Last time I checked the Canadian and US governments are really prosecuting people for their religious views.

prosecuting? where? give an example where somebody is prosecuted because he/she is a christian

Read the original post for such a citation.

[BartSimpson]

Blue_Nose wrote:

BartSimpson wrote:

So Christian businesses who refuse atheists and homosexuals would be okay with you, too? Or is your latitude for religious discrimination reserved only for Muslims?

Um, no, I didn't condone the Muslims' actions whatsoever, and my earlier posts says as much.

I wrote:

As far as I'm concerned, if your religion conflicts with your work, you're free to find another job.

That's not what I take away from this. It looks to me like you're excusing the actions of the cab drivers since they're not being violent and, further, the colour of the comment is that they are being victimized because their religious views are not being respected.

Quote:

Except the cab drivers refusing dogs and drunks aren't killing anyone, and the point xerxes was making is that they're being criticized for their own actions which don't fit into our secular culture, not because they share a religion with terrorists.

[llama66]

BartSimpson wrote:

The difference is that Catholics and other Christians are not killing anyone to promote their religion nor do we riot in the streets when someone draws a cartoon of Jesus nor do we behead people we disagree with.

Muslims can believe whatever the hell they want and they can say whatever the hell they want but I draw the line when they kill people over their beliefs.

Kindly stop equating modern Islam with modern Christianity because the comparison is utterly false.

So Catholics and Christians don't kill each other to promote religion? Tell that to the 3500+ people who died during "The Troubles" in Ireland. The IRA (Catholic) killed Protestants, and the UDF/UFF killed Catholics. Ask an Orangeman what their opinion of Gerry Adams and Sinn Féin is. And what was the Crusades? We (Christians) sacked Jerusalem (a free city for ALL to worship in), and went to war against the Muslims nine (9) times. then there was the Inquisition (Christians killing Christians again). Christians are just as bad as every other religion. I'm sure I could find hundreds of examples of Christianity oppressing and killing in the name of "God". I know you shall claim that the crusades are not "modern Christianity" however everything post First Council of Nicaea (325 CE) is modern Christianity.

[Thanos]

Therefore be on your guards against the Jews, knowing that wherever they have their synagogues, nothing is found but a den of devils in which sheer self-glory, conceit, lies, blasphemy, and defaming of God and men are practiced most maliciously...

My advice, as I said earlier, is: first, that their synagogues be burned down, and that all who are able toss sulphur and pitch; it would be good if someone could also throw in some hell fire......

Second, that all their books - their prayer books, their talmudic writings, also the entire bible - be taken from them, not leaving them one leaf, and that these be preserved for those who may be converted.....

Third, that they be forbidden on pain of death to praise god, to give thanks, to pray, and to teach publically among us and in our country......

Fourth, that they be forbidden to utter the name of god within our hearing, for we cannot with good conscience listen to this or tolerate it......

Martin Luther "On The Jews And Their Lies"

vs.


Judgement day shall not come until the Muslim fights the Jew, where the Jew will hide behind trees and stones and the tree and stone will speak and say, "Muslim, behind me is a Jew. Come and kill him."

The Muslim Hadith (Sayings Of The Prophet Muhammed)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pretty much the same damn disgusting thing regardless of which religion it comes from. And in the end it all leads to the same damn place. What's the essential difference between Christian and Muslim when it comes to literary atrocity such as this? Extra points to the Muslim for brevity?

PS: The Lutheran Churches didn't acknowledge or apologize for Lutheran complicity in the Nazi Holocaust until the 1990's. So much for the idea that Christian idiocy is that much farther advanced than Muslim idiocy.

[Blue_Nose]

BartSimpson wrote:

That's not what I take away from this. It looks to me like you're excusing the actions of the cab drivers since they're not being violent

No, I'm echoing the point xerxes made that this "persecution" of Christians is in many cases highlighted in that article no different from that of Muslims - if you're going to complain about religious persecution, you can't turn around and condemn Muslims in the same circumstances.

I maintain that a cab driver that can't properly service their patrons, and a teacher who can't teach the material properly, both deserve to be fired, irrespective of religion.

BartSimpson wrote:

the colour of the comment is that they are being victimized because their religious views are not being respected.

So do you disagree with that notion, or do you still maintain that Christians are being persecuted? The only "colour of the comment" is that you can't have it both ways.

[fifeboy]

BartSimpson wrote:

xerxes wrote:

Here's a proposition:

A lot of people constantly harp on Muslims for their outdated religious beliefs (Mark Steyn included) and their supposed inability to adapt to our modern secular society, and to a point, rightly so.

Yet, Catholics and other Christians share many of those outdated beliefs, but when they're told that their beliefs are incompatible with our modern secular society, they scream "persecution".

So here we have a bit of a double standard. One religions' bizarre beliefs are mocked while another has their beliefs deemed as protected and persecuted when criticized.

So which is it? We all take shots at Muslim cab drivers who refuse to carry passengers carrying alcohol as per their religious beliefs, but to the counselor who defers to a colleague because they think homosexuality is a sin, people defend her as being persecuted.

The difference is that Catholics and other Christians are not killing anyone to promote their religion nor do we riot in the streets when someone draws a cartoon of Jesus nor do we behead people we disagree with.

Muslims can believe whatever the hell they want and they can say whatever the hell they want but I draw the line when they kill people over their beliefs.

Kindly stop equating modern Islam with modern Christianity because the comparison is utterly false.

http://www.cathnews.com/news/509/54.php

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Identity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_Nations