[Evan]

Let them go. If they want to go go!! but not with Canadian money and healthcare and troops. If they want to be a country then let them have their own money healthcare and all the things that a country has. But I'm not paying for it.

[RoyalHighlander]

Evan wrote:

Let them go. If they want to go go!! but not with Canadian money and healthcare and troops. If they want to be a country then let them have their own money healthcare and all the things that a country has. But I'm not paying for it.

If ther DO go they wont be taking much as I know for a fact the the first nations will not go too and will remain as part of Canada, so in the end all they will have is a 20 mile wide strip of land between Montreal and Quebec City..LOL

[Evan]

That would be cute. They have a large number of Natives in the northern part of Quebec isnt it?? I think thats the reason they never do seperate is because all the Natives say no. They probably know that it would be bad news for them to go. They would have to learn french. If they dont know it already.

[mike2277]

Rosco wrote:

Rev_Blair wrote:

Why all these attempts from the west to stir things up?

Because we're the ones being bled of money, investment and jobs to the point of economic erosion just to keep those Quebecers happy.

You have conveniently forgotten the contributions made by Ontario aka the Cash Cow of Confederation.

[Rosco]

Yeah but Ontario has benefitted in so many other ways from federal favorism it's not funny, Ontario voters know this which is why they're satisfied with the status quo.

[RoyalHighlander]

Evan wrote:

That would be cute. They have a large number of Natives in the northern part of Quebec isnt it?? I think thats the reason they never do seperate is because all the Natives say no. They probably know that it would be bad news for them to go. They would have to learn french. If they dont know it already.

Most First Nations People speak thier native language, english and French, and not just in the North either,, The st Lawrenec seaway runs right throush Ganawage just south of Montrel, and like I said they would have a small strip between Mtl and Quebec city letf.. The first nations already made thier intentiopns known a long time ago they would stay with canada

[hockeyguy3399]

Rosco wrote:

Quebec is a stone around the neck of Canada, one that horribly mismanages the huge amounts of bribe money it is given not to separate. I say let them go if all they want to do is take our money and impose a "greater Quebec" on the rest of the country, we'd be better off in the long run.

Really!, whew I feel much better knowing that my country wont split!

[mike2277]

Rosco wrote:

Yeah but Ontario has benefitted in so many other ways from federal favorism it's not funny, Ontario voters know this which is why they're satisfied with the status quo.

Well, if a federal government wants to buy votes, they're going to do it where the votes are.

[mike2277]

RoyalHighlander wrote:

Evan wrote:

That would be cute. They have a large number of Natives in the northern part of Quebec isnt it?? I think thats the reason they never do seperate is because all the Natives say no. They probably know that it would be bad news for them to go. They would have to learn french. If they dont know it already.

Most First Nations People speak thier native language, english and French, and not just in the North either,, The st Lawrenec seaway runs right throush Ganawage just south of Montrel, and like I said they would have a small strip between Mtl and Quebec city letf.. The first nations already made thier intentiopns known a long time ago they would stay with canada

Quite right:

"The position of the native people is that the province belongs to the native people. Quebec cannot go out on its own and be separate. What Quebec should be talking about when it talks about separating is only the Montreal and Quebec City area and that's it."
Billy Diamond, Cree chief, The Winnipeg Free Press, 28 July 1990

[hockeyguy3399]

Rev_Blair wrote:

Oh man, I'm bored of the rings already.

I'm pretty tired of this French/English debate too. They want to speak French...let 'em. You don't find a lot of French speakers (bilingual or otherwise) west of Winnipeg until you look at the younger kids...my generation and older never really had a fair shot at learning the language, not that we tried that hard either. You do find a fair number of Quebec residents that can at least get along in English though, even if they aren't fluent.

I don't agree with their language laws at all...just like I wouldn't agree if Alberta decided that any words not spelled in American had to be slightly smaller than words using real English or Newfoundland decided that all signs had to be in Gaelic.

Things are looking up though. The PQ and BQ are on the decline and all the latest polls on the subject show that a referendum wouldn't even be close...the majority of Quebeckers want to stay in Canada. Why all these attempts from the west to stir things up?

Oops I meant to say that about this quote, not that anti Canadian's quote.

[Koopsta]

Quebec separatism exists only by an old school principal of 19th century nation states. If quebec were to separate the Canadian experience until tht point will become an entirely backward and confused history. French Canadians were instrumental in confederation just as much as an ontarian (JAMac is still scottish as far as im concerned an immigrant forfather is a very pseudo-Roman quality). The 19th century nation state involves the idea that each culture has its own land and state, thts what the bloc an essential right wing party concerned with "race" is interested in. I have nothing against their beliefs but Canada is a beautiful place beause of how we combine aspects of classical culture(a culture unifying a large expanse of land and diverse people) and the progressive culture (social programs).


my two cents

ill clean up any unclarities as they're perceived

[othello]

If you have a problem with provincial legislation in Quebec, move to Quebec, become a resident and vote in the election to change it. If, while visiting Quebec, you feel discriminated against, use the judicial system to right the alleged wrongs.

Quebec separation, at this point, is a figment. It is nowhere near reality. All the discussion about it is moot.

And by the way, a francophone in Quebec and New Brunswick is more likely to speak english than an anglophone in the rest of Canada is to speak french.

[thirdEye]

othello wrote:

If you have a problem with provincial legislation in Quebec, move to Quebec, become a resident and vote in the election to change it. If, while visiting Quebec, you feel discriminated against, use the judicial system to right the alleged wrongs.

I assume you have the same advice for everyone who has complaints about the American system?

If you feel that that is the only way to deal with certain parts of their provincial legislation that goes against basic human rights, I think you are missing something. Don't you realize that thousands and thousands of people have moved out of Quebec because of their provincial legislation? Their has been a cultural genocide going on in Quebec for the past several decades and the best you can come up with is advice like that? That you would implicitly condone their human rights violations, which make all of Canada look bad by the way, is incomprehensible.

Besides, how would an English person challegene anything in a Quebec court? They are not entitled to have court proceedings in English.

It should also be noted, by the way, that there are currently cases being heard at the UN for Quebec's language legislation and their human right's violations. Nice to have Canada on trial for such things, isn't it? This is the only recourse for English people in Quebec, since people in the rest of Canada, like you, have abandoned them to misguided sentiments like the ones you have expressed.

Quote:

Quebec separation, at this point, is a figment. It is nowhere near reality.

What a shame. Though, it might be revived again after the latest Liberal scandal and the growing backlash against Quebec.

Quote:

And by the way, a francophone in Quebec and New Brunswick is more likely to speak english than an anglophone in the rest of Canada is to speak french.

So what's your point? It is a hell of a lot easier for 7 million french speakers living on a continent of 280 million English speakers than it is the other way around, despite the fact that the government there tries their best to prevent people from learning and speaking English. Even then, there are an astonishing number of french people in Quebec who can't speak English, even right across the river from here in Ottawa. I've worked at the government with some of them. Then there are those who can speak English but refuse to because of their overstated sense of entitlement - I've experienced that many times both inside and outside of Quebec.

[karra]

I'm not aware of any country anywhere that conducted a bloodless separation. If Quebec decides to go, rest assured there will be a great deal of blood spilled.

Those in Quebec that tout the separatist movement tend to be academics and tenured. Safe and sound in the knowledge they know their direct deposit won't stall and there's bread on the table. I don't think the average joe believes for a moment there are glory days ahead once lines have been drawn. Someone noted earlier the Natives in the northern part of the province. The 49th doesn't exist for Native Americans, they travel freely and unchallenged. Look to see a huge influx of warriors, weaponry, expertise and cash should the spectre of separation loom and Quebec tells them they can't separate.

I don't have a problem with a state/province wanting to retain it's heritage and language. But at what cost? To the detriment of the rest of us? It seems to be the case as corruption and waste occupies the headlines of late. Think health care, education, farm subsidies, and so on. Then think transfer payments cut.

A child grows up in Quebec in this day and age and learns only French. Where can he go? He is restricted geographically as to where he can live and travel, not just in the roc but worldwide and he should know that when his plane lands in gay paree - they won't be able to understand him.

France is concerned about the decline of its language. There's no more foraging the world seeking new colonies, spreading the gospel and enforcing language on indigenous peoples. France with a population of 65 million is worried. Quebec with a stagnant population of 7 million is worried.

Tolerance.

[thirdEye]

karra wrote:

I'm not aware of any country anywhere that conducted a bloodless separation. If Quebec decides to go, rest assured there will be a great deal of blood spilled.

Czech Republic / Slovakia did it with the stroke of a pen and handshakes several years ago.

Quote:

A child grows up in Quebec in this day and age and learns only French. Where can he go? He is restricted geographically as to where he can live and travel, not just in the roc but worldwide and he should know that when his plane lands in gay paree - they won't be able to understand him.

Good point, but you must admit, the federal government is doing it's best to make it easier for a french person who doesn't speak English to move anywhere in Canada and receive services in french. All of the money the spent on bilingualism doesn't do anything to help English people in Quebec. The only reason they want all of the English kids to learn french is so that the french kids don't have to know English. That is the only way to explain their huge double standards.

Quote:

France is concerned about the decline of its language. There's no more foraging the world seeking new colonies, spreading the gospel and enforcing language on indigenous peoples. France with a population of 65 million is worried. Quebec with a stagnant population of 7 million is worried.

Geez, french wasn't always around either. It displaced latin and/or tribal languages at some point in history.

Gaelic is an endangered language here in Canada and even in Scotland. And yes, there used to be quite a few Gaelic speaking people in Nova Scotia and Newfoundland. My dad grew up on Cape Breton Island not all that long ago and said Gaelic was quite common. There is even a Gaelic College on Cape Breton Island but I doubt if it receives any funding from the federal government. They are too concerned with putting up new french immersion schools there instead. In Canada it, it seems the only heritage deemed worthy of saving is french.