[ShepherdsDog]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/s ... ng254.html

Quote:

RCMP say they have seized more than half a million cartons of cigarettes and 6.2 tonnes of drug precursors as part of an investigation into an alleged Asian organized crime ring that has resulted in the arrests of eight people.

The investigation began in 2009 after customs officials in Vancouver found counterfeit cigarettes in a shipping container they say were bound for Toronto, Ontario RCMP said in a release. The RCMP and Canada Border Services Agency partnered with other international agencies over the next two years to further investigate and have since seized 11 sea containers, seven in Vancouver and four in Toronto.

Some deluded individuals seem to think that just because something is legal, gangs aren't involved in making a profit off of it. Taxes make everything expensive and cigarette smuggling is still a lucrative trade for organized crime, as is bootlegging in the north. All legal products....still putting money into the pockets of organized crime. So why would legalizing pot be much different. Sure they may take some losses, but undercutting heavily taxed government licensed products has always been a way criminal organizations have made plenty of money.

[saturn_656]

How dare you cloud the argument with silly facts!

[Zipperfish]

I imagine smokes will be illegal pretty soon. That'll be a big black market. There's a Russian--czar, I think--who'd cut off yu nose if you were caught smoking. Didn't get rid of it.

[Freakinoldguy]

The sad reality is that if there's a way to make money from something legal or not someone's gonna come up with a way to do it and unfortunately for us it's either organized crime or big corporations.

[Zipperfish]

Smokes are about $15/carton over here. And that's the American ones. I'm thinking of taking it up at that price!

[Gunnair]

Zipperfish wrote:

Smokes are about $15/carton over here. And that's the American ones. I'm thinking of taking it up at that price!

Ship them back for a profit!

[Thanos]

Time to confess to a bit of law breaking here. Back in the late '90's I was working at a small metal shop. One of the pipe fitters there had a biker for a brother-in-law. Every two months or so he'd canvass the shop and put together a "grocery" list for alcohol. Turns out the biker-in-law and his buddies had a connection to a major-league stolen liquor racket that was operating out of Montana. Every couple of months or so one of them would head down to Great Falls in a cube truck and come back with thousands of dollars in stolen booze and then the gang would sell it all across Calgary. To make a long story short let's just say that I wasn't paying retail price or taxes at all on any of my Jim Beam, Smirnoff, or Wild Turkey for the better part of the three years that I worked at that particular location.

Yeah, I knew it was illegal. I probably wouldn't do it again, mostly 'cause I don't drink anymore, but back then my own ethics weren't as tight as they are today. So I indulged in something wrong just because it allowed me to save a few bucks on a habit. It makes me kind of uncomfortable nowadays when thinking about how my own money went into the pockets of slime like a 'cycle gang and I hope that I'm not judged too harshly by the Big Guy upstairs when the day comes that I have to answer for my life. Can't do anything about it now though except to say that I certainly wouldn't do the same thing ever again.

No biggie. Just another anecdote about how organized crime even uses perfectly legal things to enrich themselves through theft of basic items like alcohol and by corrupting something as basic as a distribution network. These guys aren't dumb, at least not when it comes to stealing everything they can get their hands on and figuring out how to get these things to people who want them. Legalization of drugs, if it ever happens, won't slow them down one bit. The crooks are just too damn good at their profession.

[Brenda]

I have smoked so many illegal cigarettes. They came from Southern Europe and were not taxed. 25 guilders for 20 packs of 20 instead of 45/50 guilders for the same. Marlboro and those kinds of cigarettes.
So yeah, illegal. And smoking was legal everywhere back then (even on the plane and train, and of course restaurants and pubs, and where ever you worked except for grocery story) and no warnings or warning pics on the packs yet LOL

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Well, those are all nice stories but they all neglect one important fact. Allowing full legalization AND allowing individuals to grow thier own would go a long way to alleviating said concerns.
Shep: While the tobacco thing may seem pertinent, the simple fact is, people can't just grow their own tobacco.
Thanos: Ever notice how those gangs deal primarily with liquor anymore? Why? Because private citizens can legally make their own beer and wine at home.

Let people grow their own and it won't much matter how fucking cheap the gangs try and sell it for. Pretty simple really.

[Curtman]

ShepherdsDog wrote:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2011/11/01/rcmp-organized-crime-ring254.html

Quote:

RCMP say they have seized more than half a million cartons of cigarettes and 6.2 tonnes of drug precursors as part of an investigation into an alleged Asian organized crime ring that has resulted in the arrests of eight people.

The investigation began in 2009 after customs officials in Vancouver found counterfeit cigarettes in a shipping container they say were bound for Toronto, Ontario RCMP said in a release. The RCMP and Canada Border Services Agency partnered with other international agencies over the next two years to further investigate and have since seized 11 sea containers, seven in Vancouver and four in Toronto.

Some deluded individuals seem to think that just because something is legal, gangs aren't involved in making a profit off of it. Taxes make everything expensive and cigarette smuggling is still a lucrative trade for organized crime, as is bootlegging in the north. All legal products....still putting money into the pockets of organized crime. So why would legalizing pot be much different. Sure they may take some losses, but undercutting heavily taxed government licensed products has always been a way criminal organizations have made plenty of money.

The difference is that prohibition has made organized crime the only place to buy pot. The cigarette and alcohol smugglers have a teeny tiny fraction of their market. They control the entire pot market, including the pricing.

[Gunnair]

PublicAnimalNo9 wrote:

Well, those are all nice stories but they all neglect one important fact. Allowing full legalization AND allowing individuals to grow thier own would go a long way to alleviating said concerns.
Shep: While the tobacco thing may seem pertinent, the simple fact is, people can't just grow their own tobacco.
Thanos: Ever notice how those gangs deal primarily with liquor anymore? Why? Because private citizens can legally make their own beer and wine at home.

Let people grow their own and it won't much matter how fucking cheap the gangs try and sell it for. Pretty simple really.

Agreed though I wonder really at how many people would grow their own.

[Brenda]

PublicAnimalNo9 wrote:

Well, those are all nice stories but they all neglect one important fact. Allowing full legalization AND allowing individuals to grow thier own would go a long way to alleviating said concerns.
Shep: While the tobacco thing may seem pertinent, the simple fact is, people can't just grow their own tobacco.
Thanos: Ever notice how those gangs deal primarily with liquor anymore? Why? Because private citizens can legally make their own beer and wine at home.

Let people grow their own and it won't much matter how fucking cheap the gangs try and sell it for. Pretty simple really.

You can grow 5 pot-plants legally in The Netherlands, you can buy your pot in a coffee shop (only as resident tho, not as tourist anymore), and that does not really matter.

[andyt]

[Lemmy]

Gunnair wrote:

Agreed though I wonder really at how many people would grow their own.

That's the fly in the ointment. It's easy for me. I live in a rural area. I also have a cottage. I have lots of places to grow. But most people live in urban areas. Where are they going to grow? And if people just started to grow it in their backyards, it'd be a pretty easy target for the punks in town. You'd have to somehow keep keep your plants secure. Otherwise, the cops would spend every waking moment answering complaints about stolen plants.

[andyt]

Lemmy wrote:

Gunnair wrote:

Agreed though I wonder really at how many people would grow their own.

That's the fly in the ointment. It's easy for me. I live in a rural area. I also have a cottage. I have lots of places to grow. But most people live in urban areas. Where are they going to grow? And if people just started to grow it in their backyards, it'd be a pretty easy target for the punks in town. You'd have to somehow keep keep your plants secure. Otherwise, the cops would spend every waking moment answering complaints about stolen plants.

Well how many plants are these people going to grow? Surely a few plants is enough for an individual's needs, and they can grow those in an apartment instead of ferns.

But if it's legal to grow your own, what's wrong with allowing it to be sold legally in liquor stores?