I’m not insinuating anything Gunny. I just look at things objectively. This immigrant purposely chose a Christmas market. That has some significance that shouldn’t be overlooked. Some people seem to be in a hurry to overlook this. It reminds me of the Fort Hood shootings when people went out of their way to say Islam etc, wasn’t a factor.
Maybe the Christmas market isn’t a factor and this wanker didn’t have a hatred of people who celebrate Christmas, but hey, it looks to me as a factor that needs to be investigated.
I'm not sure how you can say that, unless it wasn't an insinuation but a clear declaration.
You said people here were defending him.
Quote:
Yea, I fail to see why people are coming to this guy's defence.
Maybe I missed those posts where people were defending him and I'd sure appreciate it if you point them out.
As for the rest, again, if by attacking a Christmas market (which will be a target rich environment at this time of year when looking for packed crowds to maximize damage - like Loughner going to a political rally) that somehow means it's a religious inspired attack, then Loughner is a communist.
EyeBrock
CKA Uber
Posts: 14762
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:25 pm
Calm down Gunny. I'm not saying that because this guy carried out his acts of wanton murder and other carnage at a Christmas fair that he's targeting Christians. I am saying that we shouldn't rush to discount the obvious link quite yet.
Europe has a bit of history of very recent sectarian and religious violence instigated by recent immigrants or those from large immigrant communities. Some are even Muslim.
To ignore that fact is a rose-tinted glasses approach.
Also, I'm seeing a lot of effort put in by various posters to rail against Bart's views on things. Bart isn't the bad guy here, this murderer is. We shouldn't lose sight of that fact, no matter how distasteful you may find his posts.
This murderer chose to kill defenceless people in a manner that reminds me of the Mumbai attacks. There are some things that need to be examined here before we can discount a religious/cultural factor in this outrage.
commanderkai
CKA Super Elite
Posts: 6138
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:20 pm
Brenda wrote:
It's the Daily mail...
Quote:
Yesterday, Amrani's lawyer said he carried out the attack because he feared being sent to back to prison for a sex crime.
That's his motive? If he didn't want to go to jail, just shoot yourself, instead of going to a public shopping area and bus stop, attacking and injuring over a hundred people, and then killing himself. How can that be his motive to go out and try to kill a lot of people?
Gunnair
CKA Uber
Posts: 13849
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:27 pm
EyeBrock wrote:
Calm down Gunny. I'm not saying that because this guy carried out his acts of wanton murder and other carnage at a Christmas fair that he's targeting Christians. I am saying that we shouldn't rush to discount the obvious link quite yet.
Europe has a bit of history of very recent sectarian and religious violence instigated by recent immigrants or those from large immigrant communities. Some are even Muslim.
To ignore that fact is a rose-tinted glasses approach.
Also, I'm seeing a lot of effort put in by various posters to rail against Bart's views on things. Bart isn't the bad guy here, this murderer is. We shouldn't lose sight of that fact, no matter how distasteful you may find his posts.
This murderer chose to kill defenceless people in a manner that reminds me of the Mumbai attacks. There are some things that need to be examined here before we can discount a religious/cultural factor in this outrage.
Bart is the bigot here... on this forum.... where he makes bigoted posts. Simply put. It bothers him, and I don't know why, frankly. That's the way he is and I would think he should just drop the pretence and embrace it.
He's not the bad guy in the story, that's the so far secular non Muslim fella who focused his ire on a target rich environment for killing. No news feed I've seen links him to a religious terrorist group, nor even links him to being religious. Until then, making that link without any evidence whatsoever reeks of bigotry. Dig around in his apartment, find an Islamic Brotherhood manifesto, and I'll tell you how I like my crow best.
Anyway, seeing as nothing good will come from you and I continuing to go around this buoy, I will call endex.
Last edited by Gunnair on Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
FieryVulpine
Forum Junkie
Posts: 572
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:27 pm
World's dumbest criminal...
And I thought he did shoot and kill himself. Oh boy, I feel sheepish.
Last edited by FieryVulpine on Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Gunnair
CKA Uber
Posts: 13849
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:28 pm
commanderkai wrote:
Brenda wrote:
It's the Daily mail...
Quote:
Yesterday, Amrani's lawyer said he carried out the attack because he feared being sent to back to prison for a sex crime.
That's his motive? If he didn't want to go to jail, just shoot yourself, instead of going to a public shopping area and bus stop, attacking and injuring over a hundred people, and then killing himself. How can that be his motive to go out and try to kill a lot of people?
People can be quite fucked, really.
commanderkai
CKA Super Elite
Posts: 6138
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:30 pm
Brenda wrote:
If it were a white guy, with no religion, no one would even care here, since it is in Belgium.
Bart, Why the hell do you think I brought up the guy in Alphen a/d Rijn? Because NO ONE knows what the hell I am talking about, because IT WAS A WHITE CRAZY GUY, who had no terrorist motive, yet emptied an automatic weapon on shoppers, killing 6, wounding 17, before he killed himself. He was NEVER called a terrorist. He was a fucked up crazy guy killing random people in a damned killing spree, JUST like this guy in Liege.
I'm sorry...what? When the Norway shooting occurred, it garnered a lot of discussion on this site. When Loughner carried out his shooting, that also garnered a lot of discussion. When the suicidal guy crashed his Cessna in the Texas IRS building, it garnered a lot of discussion. You're not being reasonable that mass murders/terrorism conducted by some "white guy" isn't discussed on this site. Hell, the "Jewish terrorist" rioters was getting some play, when that was an even WORSE use of the word terrorism.
Basically, stop. Don't act like this is just something that is brought up because this guy was Moroccan, but rather it was brought up because this was NEWSWORTHY, since two babies, a grandmother, and two other people are dead, with 125 injured by a single gunman.
Gunnair
CKA Uber
Posts: 13849
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:33 pm
commanderkai wrote:
Brenda wrote:
If it were a white guy, with no religion, no one would even care here, since it is in Belgium.
Bart, Why the hell do you think I brought up the guy in Alphen a/d Rijn? Because NO ONE knows what the hell I am talking about, because IT WAS A WHITE CRAZY GUY, who had no terrorist motive, yet emptied an automatic weapon on shoppers, killing 6, wounding 17, before he killed himself. He was NEVER called a terrorist. He was a fucked up crazy guy killing random people in a damned killing spree, JUST like this guy in Liege.
I'm sorry...what? When the Norway shooting occurred, it garnered a lot of discussion on this site. When Loughner carried out his shooting, that also garnered a lot of discussion.
Very true. I'm sure you recall that many linked him and the tea party based on nothing more than speculation. Righties got real angry about that.
Same thing here, but righties get real angry if you don't make that connection based on speculation.
Tricks
CKA Uber
Posts: 18779
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:34 pm
Brenda wrote:
Tricks wrote:
I didn't find any mention of convicted sex offenses. Got a link? I might have over-looked it. The only thing I'm finding is drugs and guns.
It's the Daily mail...
Quote:
Yesterday, Amrani's lawyer said he carried out the attack because he feared being sent to back to prison for a sex crime.
He wasn't convicted. As I said earlier the guy thought he was being set up, so says his lawyer.
Brenda
CKA Uber
Posts: 44544
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:43 pm
commanderkai wrote:
Brenda wrote:
If it were a white guy, with no religion, no one would even care here, since it is in Belgium.
Bart, Why the hell do you think I brought up the guy in Alphen a/d Rijn? Because NO ONE knows what the hell I am talking about, because IT WAS A WHITE CRAZY GUY, who had no terrorist motive, yet emptied an automatic weapon on shoppers, killing 6, wounding 17, before he killed himself. He was NEVER called a terrorist. He was a fucked up crazy guy killing random people in a damned killing spree, JUST like this guy in Liege.
I'm sorry...what? When the Norway shooting occurred, it garnered a lot of discussion on this site. When Loughner carried out his shooting, that also garnered a lot of discussion. When the suicidal guy crashed his Cessna in the Texas IRS building, it garnered a lot of discussion. You're not being reasonable that mass murders/terrorism conducted by some "white guy" isn't discussed on this site. Hell, the "Jewish terrorist" rioters was getting some play, when that was an even WORSE use of the word terrorism.
Basically, stop. Don't act like this is just something that is brought up because this guy was Moroccan, but rather it was brought up because this was NEWSWORTHY, since two babies, a grandmother, and two other people are dead, with 125 injured by a single gunman.
Bart brought it up with the headline he did, BECAUSE the guy was not a white native of Belgium. He even admitted it himself.
commanderkai
CKA Super Elite
Posts: 6138
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:14 pm
Gunnair wrote:
Very true. I'm sure you recall that many linked him and the tea party based on nothing more than speculation. Righties got real angry about that.
Same thing here, but righties get real angry if you don't make that connection based on speculation.
Yes, I remember, I went through some of the comments earlier today, and any discussion of Loughner turned into "Tea Party/Sarah Palin/American conservatives are all responsible yada yada". It didn't turn out that way, but considering most of those threads were derailed into labeling entire groups as being directly or indirectly responsible for the attack, and in the end, he had absolutely no affiliation with anything relating to American conservative politics. I was pretty angry at being labelled as indirectly for the murders of a good deal of people, including a young girl, a judge, and others, along with the attempted assassination of a politician.
The only connection that Bart, and I, and others have overtly made was that this was terrorism. I, as a self-described rightie, am not angry that people disagree with my view of this being terrorism. Nobody said it was in the name of Allah, or Jesus, or Marx, or the Spaghetti Monster, or whatever else, just that it was terrorism. I have questions about this whole situation, like why a Christmas market? How did he get his hands on grenades? What was his motive for killing 5 innocent people and injuring 125? They may never be answered. Maybe I'm hoping for some sort of motive because it'll give me some understanding of this fucked up crime. Even Loughner was batshit insane, and that explained it enough. I can understand killing in the name of a cause, no matter how stupid that cause might be.
The only person angry should be Bart, and justly so, in my opinion, since this thread has been semi-derailed because people want to lambast some ulterior motive on Bart for posting this newsworthy item. If you think Bart is a bigot, his comments in this thread don't play that out, at all. He didn't mention anything about kicking Muslims out of the West, or things you'd expect from bigots that we've seen on terrorism issues like this.
Basically, this entire thread was hijacked. What was a terrible tragedy where people of all stripes can come to make comments about the horrible attack, became some bullshit mudslinging fest.
EyeBrock
CKA Uber
Posts: 14762
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:25 pm
Gunnair wrote:
EyeBrock wrote:
Calm down Gunny. I'm not saying that because this guy carried out his acts of wanton murder and other carnage at a Christmas fair that he's targeting Christians. I am saying that we shouldn't rush to discount the obvious link quite yet.
Europe has a bit of history of very recent sectarian and religious violence instigated by recent immigrants or those from large immigrant communities. Some are even Muslim.
To ignore that fact is a rose-tinted glasses approach.
Also, I'm seeing a lot of effort put in by various posters to rail against Bart's views on things. Bart isn't the bad guy here, this murderer is. We shouldn't lose sight of that fact, no matter how distasteful you may find his posts.
This murderer chose to kill defenceless people in a manner that reminds me of the Mumbai attacks. There are some things that need to be examined here before we can discount a religious/cultural factor in this outrage.
Bart is the bigot here... on this forum.... where he makes bigoted posts. Simply put. It bothers him, and I don't know why, frankly. That's the way he is and I would think he should just drop the pretence and embrace it.
He's not the bad guy in the story, that's the so far secular non Muslim fella who focused his ire on a target rich environment for killing. No news feed I've seen links him to a religious terrorist group, nor even links him to being religious. Until then, making that link without any evidence whatsoever reeks of bigotry. Dig around in his apartment, find an Islamic Brotherhood manifesto, and I'll tell you how I like my crow best.
Anyway, seeing as nothing good will come from you and I continuing to go around this buoy, I will call endex.
Sounds good buddy.
Gunnair
CKA Uber
Posts: 13849
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:31 pm
commanderkai wrote:
Gunnair wrote:
Very true. I'm sure you recall that many linked him and the tea party based on nothing more than speculation. Righties got real angry about that.
Same thing here, but righties get real angry if you don't make that connection based on speculation.
Yes, I remember, I went through some of the comments earlier today, and any discussion of Loughner turned into "Tea Party/Sarah Palin/American conservatives are all responsible yada yada". It didn't turn out that way, but considering most of those threads were derailed into labeling entire groups as being directly or indirectly responsible for the attack, and in the end, he had absolutely no affiliation with anything relating to American conservative politics. I was pretty angry at being labelled as indirectly for the murders of a good deal of people, including a young girl, a judge, and others, along with the attempted assassination of a politician.
The only connection that Bart, and I, and others have overtly made was that this was terrorism. I, as a self-described rightie, am not angry that people disagree with my view of this being terrorism. Nobody said it was in the name of Allah, or Jesus, or Marx, or the Spaghetti Monster, or whatever else, just that it was terrorism. I have questions about this whole situation, like why a Christmas market? How did he get his hands on grenades? What was his motive for killing 5 innocent people and injuring 125? They may never be answered. Maybe I'm hoping for some sort of motive because it'll give me some understanding of this fucked up crime. Even Loughner was batshit insane, and that explained it enough. I can understand killing in the name of a cause, no matter how stupid that cause might be.
The only person angry should be Bart, and justly so, in my opinion, since this thread has been semi-derailed because people want to lambast some ulterior motive on Bart for posting this newsworthy item. If you think Bart is a bigot, his comments in this thread don't play that out, at all. He didn't mention anything about kicking Muslims out of the West, or things you'd expect from bigots that we've seen on terrorism issues like this.
Basically, this entire thread was hijacked. What was a terrible tragedy where people of all stripes can come to make comments about the horrible attack, became some bullshit mudslinging fest.
Yeah. Hijacked. Noted and endex on this one as well.
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