[bootlegga]

Quote:

Living in the world's richest country comes at a price, and it's measured in life years.

Men in the US are on average aged 75 when they die. That is 1.5 years younger than men in the UK and 3.5 years younger than men in Australia, says a new study.

American women live on average to just under 81 - about three years younger than the average Australian woman.

While life expectancy in the US continues to improve, says the report by researchers at University of Washington in Seattle and Imperial College, London, it is not increasing as quickly as in other Western countries, so the gap is widening.

"The researchers suggest that the relatively low life expectancies in the US cannot be explained by the size of the nation, racial diversity, or economics," says the document, which ranks the US 38th in the world for life expectancy overall.

"Instead, the authors point to high rates of obesity, tobacco use and other preventable risk factors for an early death as the leading drivers of the gap between the US and other nations."

"We weren't surprised that we had lower life expectancies than other countries, but we were surprised by the fact that we were falling further behind," says Dr Ali Mokdad, professor of global health at the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington.

Take a country like Australia, he says. "It also has a nation of immigrants. It also is a relatively young country. It has similar socioeconomic characteristics.

"It has an obesity problem, and yet it has continued to improve in life expectancy and remains one of the healthiest nations in the world."

So how should the US address these risk factors?

Smoking alone is responsible for one out of every five deaths in the US, the professor says, yet the US has not been as tough as Australia in restricting tobacco advertising and public smoking.

Australia also has a greater focus on primary care - which helps with health education, and early treatment of any problems - and it has done a good job reducing the number of road traffic accidents, he adds.

The US could also save 100,000 lives a year by reducing salt in people's diets, since high blood pressure kills one in six people, Dr Mokdad says.

"We have high rates of poverty and high rates of uninsured or people lacking access to care. We have fewer primary care providers and fewer physicians per person than most states. And high rates of low education.

"We have the highest rate of obesity in the country and therefore one of the highest rates of diabetes. A relatively high rate of tobacco use and high rates of cardiovascular disease, stroke and cancer.

"It's going to take a long time to make progress, but we have 40 communities that have banned indoor smoking in public buildings, and the percentage of high school smokers is falling. In other ways, we are making being healthy an easier choice."

Dr Mary Currier, Mississippi health officer

Then there's the big issue - about one in three adults is classified as obese. That's about 10 times as many as in long-living countries like Japan, according to OECD figures.

But the US is a big country, and while parts of Mississippi have a male life expectancy of 67, behind nations like the Philippines, women in areas of Florida live as long, on average, as the Japanese, who top the longevity rankings.

It is precisely this kind of inequality that goes some way to explain why the US - and the UK to a lesser degree - lag behind other countries, according to Danny Dorling, a professor of human geography at the University of Sheffield in the UK.

He believes a more even distribution of wealth, even if the average were lower, could mean longer lives for everyone.

"I think stress is a part of it - this is the key thesis of Michael Marmot and his book on the status syndrome. People get worn out faster with greater inequality.

"However there is much more. If you have most health spending just going on a few people who have the best health to begin with - [as in] the US system - that is hardly efficient.

"In a more unequal rich country more doctors are working on things like plastic surgery. More dentists whiten teeth than fix bad teeth and so on."

Infant deaths

While it is not surprising that poor Americans lose out from inequality, Prof Dorling argues that the rich may suffer too.
Yukichi Chuganji, former world's oldest man Several of the world's oldest people have been from Japan

"Top income groups are badly affected because their doctors are not necessarily mainly interested in their health but work for organisations that have to make an income," he says.

"I am not suggesting it is deliberate but you make more money out of a patient who spends more on many drugs and investigatory operations than one who lives longer with less intervention.

"In a more equal system the rich who are well get less intervention - and they live longer in the UK than the US."

Growing income inequality in the UK, since the 1970s, has has helped to push it down the European life expectancy rankings, says Mr Dorling.

However, life expectancy is not just about forecasts made for newborn babies.

When you look at life expectancy at 65 or 75, the US performs rather well, says Svetlana Ukraintseva, senior investigator at the Center for Population Health and Aging (CPHA) at Duke University in North Carolina.

Elderly Americans have a higher chance of surviving heart disease and many cancers than their counterparts in other rich countries, she says. Where the US lags behind is what happens at a much younger age.

"It's likely not the quality of medical care itself that is the problem but access to it. Medical insurance for all might help."

This is one goal of the healthcare reform signed into law in March 2010, which will oblige American adults to have health insurance when it comes into force in 2014.

However, this remains a controversial idea in the US and the legislation could yet come unstuck.

Challenges to the constitutionality of the law are working their way through the courts, and fierce opponents in the Republican Party make no secret of their desire to repeal the legislation if the opportunity arises.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14070090

[andyt]

Quote:

He believes a more even distribution of wealth, even if the average were lower, could mean longer lives for everyone.

Bingo. But the way the US is heading, they'll have a further less even distribution of wealth and a lower average.

But if everybody would just pull themselves up by their bootstraps (just realized the pun) and went back to school or sold Avon products, then they'd be OK. Americans are just lazier than people in other countries, hence the greater disparity in wealth.

"Systemic problem? We don't have no stikin systemic problem."

[BartSimpson]

This gets trotted out quite a bit. The agency I currently work compiles exactly this kind of health data and when you sort it out the figures are revealing.

For *all men* who were born in the United States the life expectancy is 77.21 years. Whites skew to 77.98 years, blacks skew down to 71.80, Hispanics come in at 73.45, and Asians come in best at 79.01 years.

Now look at immigrants who factor into that 'total' figure:

White immigrants from Western Europe are highest at 81.6 years and that's figured that of the 6,700 Western European immigrants allowed into the US the ones who come are high income earners who had access to better-than-average health care.

Asians from Japan come along at 79.52 years.

Asians from China, however, skew down precipitously to 62.77 years.

Non-European Hispanics are even worse at 59.91 years.

Southeast Asians 65.12 years.

Sub-Saharan Africans 58.15 years.

North African (Arabs) 66.89 years.

Central American Hispanics 61.23 years.

South American Hispanics 64.57 years.

Basically, there's nothing wrong with our health care or life expectancy, there's a problem in the rest of the world and the US takes in more immigrants per capita than any other nation in the world so our total numbers end up being skewed.

[andyt]

Quote:

Canada has the highest per capita net immigration rate in the world

Wiki.

Life expectancy:


11 Canada 80.7 78.3(M) 82.9(F)

36 United States 78.3 75.6 80.8

[CommanderSock]

Food, lack of physical activity, laziness.

Have you seen some Americans lately?

So many states with obesity rates over 25% (some over 30%).

Lifestyles of driving everywhere doesn't help either.

[fifeboy]

BartSimpson wrote:

Basically, there's nothing wrong with our health care or life expectancy, there's a problem in the rest of the world and the US takes in more immigrants per capita than any other nation in the world so our total numbers end up being skewed.

Not according to Nation Master which puts Canada's immigration rate at 32.494 per 1 million people, Australia at 24.595 per 1 million people and the U.S at 19.567 per 1 million people. And just for your interest, New Caledonia at 22.787 per 1 million people (all 2005 data)

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/imm_net_mig_percap-immigration-net-migration-per-capita

The CIA world factbook gives slightly different results.

Canada 5.65 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2011 est.)

Australia 6.03 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2011 est.)

United States 4.18 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2011 est.)

and

New Caledonia 4.25 migrant(s)/1,000 population

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/

[Canadaka]

BartSimpson wrote:

This gets trotted out quite a bit. The agency I currently work compiles exactly this kind of health data and when you sort it out the figures are revealing.

For *all men* who were born in the United States the life expectancy is 77.21 years. Whites skew to 77.98 years, blacks skew down to 71.80, Hispanics come in at 73.45, and Asians come in best at 79.01 years.

Now look at immigrants who factor into that 'total' figure:

White immigrants from Western Europe are highest at 81.6 years and that's figured that of the 6,700 Western European immigrants allowed into the US the ones who come are high income earners who had access to better-than-average health care.

Asians from Japan come along at 79.52 years.

Asians from China, however, skew down precipitously to 62.77 years.

Non-European Hispanics are even worse at 59.91 years.

Southeast Asians 65.12 years.

Sub-Saharan Africans 58.15 years.

North African (Arabs) 66.89 years.

Central American Hispanics 61.23 years.

South American Hispanics 64.57 years.

Basically, there's nothing wrong with our health care or life expectancy, there's a problem in the rest of the world and the US takes in more immigrants per capita than any other nation in the world so our total numbers end up being skewed.

Ok... but the UK and Canada also have large immigrant populations

[andyt]

And as the article points out - US health care is very unevenly distributed. The rich get excellent care, but many people at the bottom don't. I believe even just factoring out the rich, they still don't have the same life expectancy as other western countries do.

And, as the article points out, the stress of greatly uneven income distribution is a major factor in these outcomes.

[dino_bobba_renno]

I'm not 100% sure but I think it has something to do with the donut burgers

[ShepherdsDog]

Why you ask? Because it is their god given inalienable right to die sooner than others, and no tyrant can strip them of that right. They will fight to the death to protect that right to die early as well.

[fifeboy]

dino_bobba_renno wrote:

I'm not 100% sure but I think it has something to do with the donut burgers

Then we too should be dropping like flies.

[rickc]

Well I am calling bullshit on these immigration numbers.Nationmaster is giving an immigration number of 19.5 per one million for the U.S. for 2005. 19.5 times 300 gives us a number of 5850. The Department of Homeland Security states that 1.2 million greencards were issued in 2005. Big diff in 1.2 million and 5850. Using the numbers from the CIA factbook, we get a number of 1.25 million immigrants. A realistic number for legal immigrants. LEGAL being the keyword here. People who have passed physical exams and background checks. People who have sponsers who have taken financial responsibility for the immigrants.

Now lets look at the REAL immigration issue. The Border Patrol states that they apprehended 1.2 million illegals at the southern border in 2005. Those are the ones they caught. How many made it through? http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 ... rder_x.htm Millions of people from the third world. People who sleep on dirt floors, have no running water or indoor plumbing. People who have never seen a Doctor or a Dentist in their lives. People who bring diseases that were long ago wiped out in the States. People with no documentaion or health benefits showing up at our medical facilities. Do you really think that millions of poor people coming from the third world is not going to have a negative effect on the U.S. life expectancy?

[fifeboy]

rickc wrote:

Well I am calling bullshit on these immigration numbers.

Can't just call bs ricky me trout. Need stats.

rickc wrote:

Nationmaster is giving an immigration number of 19.5 per one million for the U.S. for 2005. 19.5 times 300 gives us a number of 5850. The Department of Homeland Security states that 1.2 million greencards were issued in 2005. Big diff in 1.2 million and 5850. Using the numbers from the CIA factbook, we get a number of 1.25 million immigrants.A realistic number for legal immigrants.

OK, go with the CIA factbook. It still says Aus, Canada and New Scotland all have higher levels. Whatever they may be.

rickc wrote:

LEGAL being the keyword here. People who have passed physical exams and background checks. People who have sponsers who have taken financial responsibility for the immigrants.

My first response here would be "well, that's the price of well manicured lawns.

rickc wrote:

Now lets look at the REAL immigration issue. The Border Patrol states that they apprehended 1.2 million illegals at the southern border in 2005. Those are the ones they caught. How many made it through? http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 ... rder_x.htm Millions of people from the third world. People who sleep on dirt floors, have no running water or indoor plumbing. People who have never seen a Doctor or a Dentist in their lives. People who bring diseases that were long ago wiped out in the States. People with no documentaion or health benefits showing up at our medical facilities. Do you really think that millions of poor people coming from the third world is not going to have a negative effect on the U.S. life expectancy?

Sounds to me like the

Quote:

REAL immigration issue

should involve taking better care of those who end up in your country. Remember, these guys are coming to work, not for free health care. As long as you provide them with a job, no matter how crappy that job may be, you can expect them to require health care. Just part of the game. If there are no jobs, they will not come.

I am wondering if you have any stats on immigrant deaths in the U.S. I wonder how many of these illegals actually up and die while on their working holidays?

[rickc]

Fifeboy......the CIA fact book states that Canada has a higher rate of legal immigration. I am stating that there is a major difference in numbers involving our legal immigration, and the millions of illegals that push their way into our country. Our legal immigration is dwarfed by our illegal immigration. We are comparing apples to oranges. Your immigrants have to meet some standards to enter Canada.They are not bringing drug resistant TB, and malaria into Canada.

I disagree with your assertion that all the illegals are coming to the States looking for work. They are coming for a better way of life. An education for their children,indoor plumbing,potable drinking water, electricity that runs 24 hours a day,foodstamps, and yes free medical care as well. One third of the prisoners in California's prison system are illegals. They are not there for drinking in public. You have to be convicted of a felony to be doing time in prison. Many illegals in the States are conducting criminal enterprises. MS 13 is engaged in extortion,drugs,murder for hire,etc. They have no interest in working for a living.

We will have to agree to disagree on taking better care of people who end up in my country as well. These people break our laws by coming here uninvited. I do not feel as though my country owes these people anything but some time on a chaingang,followed by a bus ride to the southern border. Was there not a thread about some illegal wanting medical benefits in Canada on this site just a few days ago? Everyone was in an uproar about one illegal wanting medical care in Canada. ONE? I dare say that if 10% of the illegals residing in the States were to move to Canada, your healthcare system would collapse in under a year.

Last....the op was posting about life expectancy in the States. A previous poster brought up the effect of immigration on the life expectancy in the States. I was expanding on that theme. I did not intend to hijack the thread and turn it into a debate on immigration. For that I appologize.

[fifeboy]

rickc wrote:

Fifeboy......the CIA fact book states that Canada has a higher rate of legal immigration. I am stating that there is a major difference in numbers involving our legal immigration, and the millions of illegals that push their way into our country. Our legal immigration is dwarfed by our illegal immigration. We are comparing apples to oranges. Your immigrants have to meet some standards to enter Canada.They are not bringing drug resistant TB, and malaria into Canada.

I disagree with your assertion that all the illegals are coming to the States looking for work. They are coming for a better way of life. An education for their children,indoor plumbing,potable drinking water, electricity that runs 24 hours a day,foodstamps, and yes free medical care as well. One third of the prisoners in California's prison system are illegals. They are not there for drinking in public. You have to be convicted of a felony to be doing time in prison. Many illegals in the States are conducting criminal enterprises. MS 13 is engaged in extortion,drugs,murder for hire,etc. They have no interest in working for a living.

We will have to agree to disagree on taking better care of people who end up in my country as well. These people break our laws by coming here uninvited. I do not feel as though my country owes these people anything but some time on a chaingang,followed by a bus ride to the southern border. Was there not a thread about some illegal wanting medical benefits in Canada on this site just a few days ago? Everyone was in an uproar about one illegal wanting medical care in Canada. ONE? I dare say that if 10% of the illegals residing in the States were to move to Canada, your healthcare system would collapse in under a year.

Last....the op was posting about life expectancy in the States. A previous poster brought up the effect of immigration on the life expectancy in the States. I was expanding on that theme. I did not intend to hijack the thread and turn it into a debate on immigration. For that I appologize.

Oh ricky, ricky, ricky. Where should I go from here.
So, just a few points. 1) Illegals mostly go for the work. I visit rural Kentucky about one time a year. It is now full of Mexicans and other Spanish speaking Central and South Americans. The complaints I here are "they are taking our jobs", not "they are attending our schools." So, if ya don't want them there, quite hiring them.
2) After someone arrives, no matter if they are legal or illegal, you (yes, you!) can't let them die on the streets. You have to take care of them.
3) Canada has lots of immigrants and temp. workers who come to harvest the fields.
4) And MS13- a gang- of course not, they don't come to work. I bet most of them are born in the U.S. Besides, you would have more of a problem if the millions of illegals you claim are making the U.S. health stats look bad were all members of gangs and not just picking tomatoes. And speaking of El Salvador, ya reaps what ya sowes.