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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:48 am
 


andyt andyt:
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Caelon Caelon:
I seem to run across the stupid bicyle riders in my travels. If you recognize anyone in the list of peeves below please encourage them to change their behavior.

1. When riding in a group on a highway stay on the shoulder in single file formation. Do not ride side by side and do not drift over the white line. NEVER RIDE THREE ABREAST.

2. On rural paved roads with no shoulder you must have a suicicde wish to ride on it. Yes you have a right to the road and so do the other vehicles. So when two farm trucks hauling large round bales meet at the blind curve with no place to go to avoid you, you will be hit and possibly killed. Not to mention the other vehicles travelling at 100 kph to your 15 kph that cannot avoid you on that same blind curve.

3. For the stupid women who road in the traffic lane on a highway while her partner stayed on the shoulder. YOU ARE A TWIT. And your partner is only slightly brighter as though he was on the shoulder he did not correct your stupidity.

4. Walk your bicycle through a cross walk do not ride it. If you want to ride it stay in the traffic lanes.

5. Do not ride your bike on pedestrian overpasses. You are risking injury to the pedestrians.

6. Do not ride the wrong way down a one way street. You are a vehicle and are breaking the law.

For the idiots who think it is their right to ride how and wherever they want and not a priviledge that is being abused with several laws broken on a regular basis; there will be a time when your actions will lead to serious injury or death. It will not be a comfort for your loved ones to stand over your grave and say "He was exercising his right to the road".

If you are a biker that obeys the rules of the road and rides with common sense for your safety and others then I tip my hat to you.


7. You are considered a motor vehicle and as such you must obey ALL traffic signs and signals. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve almost be hit by a cyclist running a stop sign or red light while I had the right of way in the crosswalk.

I wish bikes required license plates so you could report them like cars.


And that never happens with cars? I've been hit by a car confidently walking across the road where he had a stop sign. (I was 16 and it taught me a lesson) I've never been hit by a bike. And of course the favorite driver tactic - turning right, so looking left for oncoming cars, but not looking for peds who might be crossing at that time - ie you need to look both ways when making a turn. You'll see them driving right thru the crosswalk still looking back over their shoulder for oncoming cars instead of looking ahead where they're driving.


I never said it doesn’t happen with cars, however the title of this thread is BICYCLE RIDERS not CAR DRIVERS


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:55 am
 


andyt andyt:
You must either have incredible cycling infrastructure in Edmonton or not cycle much. Pretty well impossible to avoid roads. And on longer rides even highways might factor into the mix. I've also never had an incident with a car, and that includes touring in North America, Europe, Australia and New Zealand. Lots of close calls from drivers with chips on their shoulder tho or mostly ones who were just oblivious.

Drivers need to get over the idea that they own the road. Yes cyclists need to obey the rules, you'd be nuts not to, but as I pointed out, there is some pretty severe feedback if a cyclist doesn't do so. Unfortunately the same doesn't apply to cars. The problem is that I can do everything right and I'm still only 50% of the equation.


Well, I don't know about other cities, but in many parts of Edmonton, when they built sidewalks here in the 80s and 90s, they built lots of them double wide (eight feet instead of four) and designated them as bike routes. In older parts of the city, they have also designated service roads (side roads running along major arteries - usually used for residential parking) as bike routes.

As such, I can travel quite well around Edmonton without having to bike on roads full of traffic (excepting at intersections where I have to cross).

I agree that drivers need to understand to share the road, but so do cyclists. It's a two-way street after all.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:05 am
 


Edmonton must be a very different city than Vancouver. On those sidewalks, are they mixing peds and cylists? Never a good idea. If I'm doing 30k on the flats I don't want to be swerving around pedestrians.

Mostly what we have here are designated cycle routes on side streets. Usually works quite well, except for the asshole drivers who try to use them to avoid the congested main road and drive like demons on a residential street. And the drivers (often Chinese) who don't seem to understand that if they have a stop sign, and I don't, I have the right of way and they need to wait for me to pass thru the instersection.

I would have no problem with a licencing scheme for bikes. I think the cops should ticket irresponsible bike riders just like cars, but then the cops often ignore what the cars do as well. And I've seen bike cops ride thru stop signs.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:46 am
 


andyt andyt:
Edmonton must be a very different city than Vancouver. On those sidewalks, are they mixing peds and cylists? Never a good idea. If I'm doing 30k on the flats I don't want to be swerving around pedestrians.

Mostly what we have here are designated cycle routes on side streets. Usually works quite well, except for the asshole drivers who try to use them to avoid the congested main road and drive like demons on a residential street. And the drivers (often Chinese) who don't seem to understand that if they have a stop sign, and I don't, I have the right of way and they need to wait for me to pass thru the instersection.

I would have no problem with a licencing scheme for bikes. I think the cops should ticket irresponsible bike riders just like cars, but then the cops often ignore what the cars do as well. And I've seen bike cops ride thru stop signs.


Yeah, peds use them too, but they're EIGHT feet wide - how much room do you need that peds can't use it at the same time as you? Given that they're in the suburbs, there isn't a whole lot of pedestrians on them anyways (one or two here and there). And because they are bounded by a strip of grass on either side, it's easy to dodge around them if it's really necessary, even at full speed, unless you are riding a road bike (I always use a mountain bike).


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:51 am
 


bootlegga bootlegga:
andyt andyt:
Edmonton must be a very different city than Vancouver. On those sidewalks, are they mixing peds and cylists? Never a good idea. If I'm doing 30k on the flats I don't want to be swerving around pedestrians.

Mostly what we have here are designated cycle routes on side streets. Usually works quite well, except for the asshole drivers who try to use them to avoid the congested main road and drive like demons on a residential street. And the drivers (often Chinese) who don't seem to understand that if they have a stop sign, and I don't, I have the right of way and they need to wait for me to pass thru the instersection.

I would have no problem with a licencing scheme for bikes. I think the cops should ticket irresponsible bike riders just like cars, but then the cops often ignore what the cars do as well. And I've seen bike cops ride thru stop signs.


Yeah, peds use them too, but they're EIGHT feet wide - how much room do you need that peds can't use it at the same time as you? Given that they're in the suburbs, there isn't a whole lot of pedestrians on them anyways (one or two here and there). And because they are bounded by a strip of grass on either side, it's easy to dodge around them if it's really necessary, even at full speed, unless you are riding a road bike (I always use a mountain bike).


Mixing peds and cyclists is never a good idea. Peds tend to wander all over a sidewalk and not look where they are going. On my commute I have the option of riding on a shared path that would save me a bit of distance. But I don't because it's such a zoo. Some peds want to fight me because they think I belong on the road, most don't understand the concept of "on your left". I ride the longer distance on the road and am probably faster doing it. Certainly more relaxed.

I ride a road bike. I ride it on the road, where it belongs.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:54 am
 


bootlegga,

Speaking of bike routes, have you had a chance to try the new "bike lanes" they have put in on the south side?

My daily commute just got a lot less stressful :D .

I hope they do that to every major road that lacks the easement to accomodate the pathways.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:59 am
 


andyt,

The double wides in Edmonton are designated for all bicyclists, pedestrians, etc. There is a yellow line down the middle and you are supposed to stay on your side in your direction (right hand, same as roads).

They have also mandated bells on bicycles, and if you are caught passing a pedestrian without giving proper warning, you will get punished...or at least a very stern talking to from the police...especially the officer that witnessed me doing it... :lol:. I have corrected my behaviour, and have found them to be very pleasant pathways from both the cycling and pedestrian perspectives.

Now, if only some good council person would reply to my email requesting similar pathways next to the low floor rail system that is getting built over the next decade... :evil:. We could, concievably, have a very direct and clear pathway covering all major districts....


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:17 pm
 


peck420 peck420:
bootlegga,

Speaking of bike routes, have you had a chance to try the new "bike lanes" they have put in on the south side?

My daily commute just got a lot less stressful :D .

I hope they do that to every major road that lacks the easement to accomodate the pathways.


No, I live in the North and bike up here (I commute by car). If I do bike in the south, it's on the paths in the River Valley. But on the CoE bike path map, they look pretty extensive.

Andy, if you'd like to see a map of Edmonton's bike paths, it's here;

http://www.edmonton.ca/transportation/E ... ikeMap.pdf

The double wide routes I'm talking about are the red ones on the map. The service roads are dotted green lines.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:53 pm
 


Nothing you guys have said convinces me that it's a good idea to mix bikes and peds. In Vancouver at least the peds walk all over the place without looking. We also have bell laws, and I have bells on my bikes. I never use them because they are so ineffective. I find a loud, sharp "on your left" works better, tho the peds are confused as to which left and if they should go left or me. I avoid bike paths unless absolutely necessary, would never plan a long ride using one (nor do we have any that are long enough anyway). And it's not a good idea to mix people going 30kph with ones going 5kph.

Cars just need to deal with the fact that bikes are vehicles same as them. And in fact in many areas they have. I can always tell when we've gone into the burbs far enough that all of a sudden the SUV and pickup drivers get more aggressive, don't seem used to bikes. It's always a relief to do a ride in the states. For some reason, even in the countryside, Washington state drivers are far more courteous and considerate to cyclists. Maybe their sue me culture does have some benefits.

It looks like you have a nice network of those ped/cycle paths. I'm sure they work well for put along riders, but not for commuters or people who want a workout when they ride and actually get somewhere.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:21 pm
 


bootlegga bootlegga:

Yeah, peds use them too, but they're EIGHT feet wide - how much room do you need that peds can't use it at the same time as you? Given that they're in the suburbs, there isn't a whole lot of pedestrians on them anyways (one or two here and there). And because they are bounded by a strip of grass on either side, it's easy to dodge around them if it's really necessary, even at full speed, unless you are riding a road bike (I always use a mountain bike).
We have these in Saskatoon also. I usually ride them when I am not in a hurry as they wander along the river. The bike lanes (sometimes double use) tend to be quicker.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:23 pm
 


peck420 peck420:
andyt,

The double wides in Edmonton are designated for all bicyclists, pedestrians, etc. There is a yellow line down the middle and you are supposed to stay on your side in your direction (right hand, same as roads).

They have also mandated bells on bicycles, and if you are caught passing a pedestrian without giving proper warning, you will get punished...or at least a very stern talking to from the police...especially the officer that witnessed me doing it... :lol:. I have corrected my behaviour, and have found them to be very pleasant pathways from both the cycling and pedestrian perspectives.

Now, if only some good council person would reply to my email requesting similar pathways next to the low floor rail system that is getting built over the next decade... :evil:. We could, concievably, have a very direct and clear pathway covering all major districts....

R=UP Do you have bike cops in Edmonton?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:26 pm
 


andyt andyt:
Nothing you guys have said convinces me that it's a good idea to mix bikes and peds.
Now tell the truth Andy. Has anything anyone has ever said convinced you of anything?? :lol: :lol: Just kidding


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:32 pm
 


fifeboy fifeboy:
R=UP Do you have bike cops in Edmonton?


Bike, Segway, and foot patrol (besides the regular motorcycle and vehicle patrols), but they usually stay in very small designated areas.

I was unlucky enough to get caught by a Segway cop while he cut through the millcreek area to get back to Whyte Ave...course I wouldn't have needed luck if I was following the rules :oops: .

PS: Segways are much faster than they look :lol: .


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:50 pm
 


peck420 peck420:
fifeboy fifeboy:
R=UP Do you have bike cops in Edmonton?


Bike, Segway, and foot patrol (besides the regular motorcycle and vehicle patrols), but they usually stay in very small designated areas.

I was unlucky enough to get caught by a Segway cop while he cut through the millcreek area to get back to Whyte Ave...course I wouldn't have needed luck if I was following the rules :oops: .

PS: Segways are much faster than they look :lol: .

The segway thing must be interesting. Ours range all along the river as far as Lawson Heights and through out downtown. I don't know where else they are. I like the bike cops, tend to talk to you if you want and are quite friendly.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:12 pm
 


andyt andyt:
And it's not a good idea to mix people going 30kph with ones going 5kph.


The hazard you notice between bikes at 30 kph and pedestrians at 5 kph is even greater on a highway when you have cars going 100+kph and bicycles are going less than 10 kph on a hill. Even if the bike is going 30 kph there is stil a 70+ kph difference in the speeds.

It makes it more important for bicycles to stay to the right edge of a shoulder and avoid roads without shoulders for their own safety. As you note mixing modes of travel with vastly different speeds creates a hazard for both.


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