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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:25 am
 


Once again the circus of the annual seal hunt has begun off the coast of Newfoundland. For anyone who is following the play between the sealers and the protestors, it is pretty interesting stuff. On the sea shephed web page, there are daily updates from one Paul Watson, the supposed captain of the Farley Mowat. After reading his reports one has to wonder if they have some really good drugs on board.

1 - He says in one report that he is north of Fogo and
"It was 93 years ago this week, and in this very area that the legendary Cunard liner Titanic sank. It was April 15, 1912, when 1,500 passengers and crew died in the frigid ice strewn waters off of Newfoundland."
That position puts them over 900 nautical miles (or 1600 km) to the north northwest of where the Titanic actually sank. (Ooops that is the wrong side of NEwfoundland) Actually it would be great for Nfld tourism if the titanic did sink north of fogo, what a boost.

2 - This "Captain" is only a figure head as his certification does not allow him to actually be the captain of the Farley Mowat. Someone else is actually legally in command

3 - He is constantly criticizing the Coast Guard for harassing him and helping the sealers. The sealers would probably say the same thing. The coast guard is there to help anyone whose vessel becomes disabled. If all the vessels sank as the sea shepherd people wish, the damage to the marine environment would be great. Don't forget that when the Farley Mowat became a SAR case herself and declared a mayday, two Coast Guard ships were dispatched to her immediately and escorted her to the nearest safe port in order to effect here repairs. I see no mention of thanks by Cpt Watson only paranoid delusions of a grand conspiracy against them. Its too bad people can't see that these people are there to help everybody. They don't escort ships to the seals, They bring them to open water when they become stuck, they do this to prevent damage to the ships and marine environment.

4 - Paul Watson has publicly admitted that the seal hunt is the most profitable of all the activist activities and that is how Greenpeace used to raise the bulk of their money. That is one of the reasons he left GReenpeace. Is it possible that the sea shepherd society is using the same tactics.
follow this link to cbc

http://stjohns.cbc.ca/clips/Stjohns/ram ... n_1978.ram

this interview is a bit of an eye opener as to just how honest a man Paul Watson is.


These are just a few examples of Paul Watson's attempts to sway his supporters away from the truth. Its too bad that a man with such a public persona has to rely on misinformation and outright lies to get his point across.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:06 am
 


I see the RCMP carried out a couple of arrests from the Farley Mowat. I didn't gather whether they had arrested the vessel or just a couple of the wanks who call themselves "crew".

Watson also got the company wrong on the Titanic. It was a White Star Liner; not Cunard.

He's been told before that he is not to represent himself as the Captain or the Master of a vessel without certification.

You really need to see the other side of Watson and his little environmental movement. The Sirenian is an old missile boat that has been painted black. Quite an imposing looking thing, leaving a trail of oil and pumping all its sewage over the side.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 1:37 pm
 


I know the 2 posts by vectra and hormel26c are relatively old news however since they are most deserving of a response - here goes:

In the case of "vectra" speaking of attempting to sway people away from the truth, it is interesting to note that the CBC interview he (or she) links to is from 1978! Not to mention the fact that the CBC, the “Controlled By Canada” network is notorious for being biased against those who protest the seal-slaughter. Also get a load of where this interview originated from - St. John's! A major center for the pro-seal-slaughter movement! Equally distorted is the fact that this recording - supposedly from what one would assume to be a credible and therefore unbiased news agency is complete with tacky "Jerry Springer" sound effects. To try and drive home the money being made by the environmental movement, this recording comes complete with cheesy cash register sounds. The narrator even comments on the poor seal-killer struggling along on the poverty line - I can hear the violins playing and I think I'm going to be sick... This narrator certainly tells a confusing tale because only seconds earlier in the recording he comments that the seal “hunt” (read: slaughter) is big business for Newfoundland generating million of dollars.

Part of this recording is actually about Brian Davies the founder of IFAW. And the interview with Paul Watson actually does show the man for who he is, an individual with great integrity. During this recording Captain Watson talks about the fact that the seal-slaughter generates lots of public interest (beating a 12-day-old baby animal to death should spark people's outrage) and donations for the big enviro organizations. If you listen on you will realize Captain Watson used this to draw attention to the plight of dolphins off the coast of California who (at the time) were being slaughtered as a result of the tuna industry - something that did not generate lots of public interest or support. Incidentally the Sea Shepherd fought against this and won! Furthermore the Sea Shepherd makes it its business to defend oceanic life that does not generate great public attention (but which remains critical for the survival of the oceans) such as the shark and the sea cucumber.

And what about the Sea Shepherd and it supposed riches? In 2004 more than 92% of all expenditures were spent on program services. This figured was arrived at by a government audit necessary for the SSCS to maintain its tax-deductible status in the United States as a registered 501(c)(3) not-for-profit organization.

As for vectra’s comment concerning the SSCS and the Coast Guard. After decades of being harassed by virtually every law enforcement agency in Canada do you think that because Captain Watson was afforded one essential courtesy he should roll out the red carpet to those who have made his life a living hell each time he has visited his homeland? This year a nation-wide warrant for the arrest of Captain Watson was put out just as he had begun a cross Canada lecture tour – over what you ask? The equivalent of a marine traffic violation, with a petty fine being the result. To make sure the Canadian gov’t didn’t sabotage his lecture tour, over the course of 24 hours Captain Watson had to fly from Victoria to PEI to address the charge and pay his “traffic ticket” and then fly all the way back to Vancouver to continue with his lecture tour. Also this year saw the RCMP arrest 11 Sea Shepherd crew who were attacked by a gang of seal-killers for photographing them killing seals. Even though the video footage the SSCS produced as evidence clearly showed from start to finish that they did not retaliate to this attack it was they who were charged and not the seal-killers. How is this? The RCMP claimed the SSCS provoked the attack simply by their presence. Where else in the world is it legal to attack someone because they provoked you with their presence?

Now on to “hormel26c”, you pointed out some petty things so I will reply in kind. The SSCS ship - the Sirenian is not painted black, it is painted white and it was not a missile boat, in its prior life it was a U.S. Coast Guard Patrol Boat (visit: http://www.seashepherd.org/fleet/fleet.html for proof) Also the Sirenian does not pump out its waste into the ocean, it operates in the Galapagos National Park (a World Heritage Site) and conforms to the strictest of environmental standards.

And who am I you ask? I’m a SSCS member who volunteers his time to what I know is the finest conservation organization on the planet. I have see all aspects of this society and in my opinion the Sea shepherd Conservation Society and it’s founder are both quite simply True Blue.


Last edited by Wilddogsam on Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 3:13 pm
 


Dear Lilly,

"Negative Propaganda (n): News I don't agree with."

And your point is?

Regards,

WDS


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:55 pm
 


So, the colour is wrong and it doesn't discharge at sea.

Is Watson a Captain or Master or what? How many dollars is 92%? What kind of "Maritime equivalent of a traffic violation" was it? It sounds to me like it'd be pretty serious if there was a National arrest warrant attached to it. So why didn't he just clear it off before he left on his tour?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:38 pm
 


What's the big deal with the seal hunt? Ever notice how it is the cute animals that get people all riled up? Just because an animal makes a good beanie-baby, does that make it more important?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:42 pm
 


Well it appears I've swatted the hornet’s nest.

In the end this debate won’t accomplish very much, since those who do not care for the environment (including those who claim they do, but who in reality contribute nothing) will continue to view Watson as a renegade and a pirate (which he sincerely enjoys the comparisons to) while those who understand what his organization is about will continue to support him regardless of the attempts made by those who oppose the “green” movement.

Still for the moment I’m enjoying myself and even though I am a firm believer in the motto “Never dexify your actions” (dexify = defend, explain, justify) I’m more than happy to provide a response – especially if in doing so it proves useful to those who might like to join the SSCS.

In answer to SprCForr’s post:

Q: “So, the colour is wrong and it doesn't discharge at sea.”

Answer:
I said I would respond in kind to the comments posted by hormel26c. This individual claimed the Sirenian is black and that it pumps out oil and sewage into the sea - quite draconian – both comments are incorrect and by providing the truth on this matter I am setting the record straight.

Q: “Is Watson a Captain or Master or what?”

Answer according to Captain Watson:
“He (vectra) also says that I am not the real Captain because the Canadian government says I am not. Strange, why is it me they arrest as Captain of the ship instead of this fictional captain that he was referring to? When it comes to pointing the finger of responsibility to the Captain of the Farley Mowat, they point at me. And then they deny that I am the Captain.”

“You can advise them that that there is only one person in charge of my ship and that is me and that makes me the Captain. I am a navigator with three decades of sea-time and I don't need a piece of paper from the government to give validity to my experience.”

I’ll add in my 2 bits here. Captain Watson’s record at sea? Since 1979 he has commanded 190 voyages in storms, through ice packs, through canals, treacherous currents and dangerous confrontations without a single incident or a single injury to his crew or to anyone else.

Q: “How many dollars is 92%?”

Answer:
I am not the accountant for the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society therefore I am not in a position to respond to this question. Also please note: I am not an official media relations representative for the SSCS, I’m just a volunteer who cares about the environment as well as a fine organization that is making a real difference.

Q: “What kind of "Maritime equivalent of a traffic violation" was it?”

Answer:
This one is an eye-opener. If you want to learn more about this incident please visit:
http://www.seashepherd.org/editorials/e ... 920_1.html
Captain Watson’s lawyer stated this was an unprecedented court case. One interpretation: never before had the government attempted to stifle someone’s right to free speech in such a manner. The ruling of the court? The magistrate listened seriously and then said Watson would be released on his own undertaking without the bail conditions demanded by the Crown. Enough said.

Q: “So why didn't he just clear it off before he left on his tour?”

Answer:
Great question: Actually it would have been nice if the government had notified him in advance of their intentions. They issued this nation-wide warrant simultaneously with the start of his lecture tour. This was also very unfortunate for me (along with many others), as I had planned a dinner for Paul to take place at a vegan (please spare me the attacks as to where and what we ate) restaurant in Vancouver – which would have been packed to capacity. Unfortunately for all of us – especially Paul - the dinner had to be cancelled so he could fly across Canada and back to hear a charge that was taken care of in short order – hardly serious by any stretch of the imagination – but then it was all the government had to make use of at the time.

SprCForr’s quote:
"You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than live as slaves." ~ Winston Churchill

Incidentally SprCForr - someone I greatly admire, Mohandas K. Gandhi - was vilified by Churchill who said (and I quote):
“It is alarming and also nauseating to see Mr. Gandhi, a seditious Middle Temple lawyer, now posing as a fakir of a type well know in the East, striding half-naked up the steps of the Viceregal Palace… to parley on equal terms with the representative of the King-Emperor.”

Even though I am also an admirer of Churchill for some of his actions, he was also a bit of a hypocrite. How could he rationalize the quote you included in your post while at the same time (he was a staunch supporter of the British Empire) deny the citizens of an entire nation the right to be free and govern themselves? And who today considers Gandhi, one of the greatest of all statesmen from the 20th Century, “a seditious Middle Temple lawyer”?

Wait and see how history judges Watson. In reference to the environment he is as important to the oceans as Gandhi was to India’s freedom.

In closing I sincerely wish you all the very best for the holiday season.

WDS


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 8:03 pm
 


I don't agree with his methods.

Wilddogsam Wilddogsam:
...Wait and see how history judges Watson. In reference to the environment he is as important to the oceans as Gandhi was to India’s freedom...


And as important as Churchill was in ridding the world of the scourge of the Naziism?

Wilddogsam Wilddogsam:
...
In closing I sincerely wish you all the very best for the holiday season.
WDS


You too. Have a good one.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 12:57 am
 


Let me get this straight. On one hand, we have Captain Watson (yes, he is a real captain, and the only captain on his ship) working hard to preserve the integrity of the oceans. He has risked his life many times over for the sake of what is priceless and good and deserves to be defended. On the other hand, we have people who spend precious time ranting and criticizing his work on forums like Canada Kicks Ass. What's wrong with this picture? I guess it's a lot easier to sit in front of a computer screen moaning to anyone in the cyber world who will listen, than it is to join the soldiers in the trenches.
Just had to say it! I like the posts by wilddogsam, who clearly has his act together and his priorities straight.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 1:12 am
 


themasta themasta:
What's the big deal with the seal hunt? Ever notice how it is the cute animals that get people all riled up? Just because an animal makes a good beanie-baby, does that make it more important?

How many sit and eat a nice plate of veal while planning another fund raiser for Green Peace,, veal yopung calfs grain fed to make them tender and tasty... not cute enough for protection???


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 1:35 am
 


Yes, calves are certainly important and sentient enough for protection, besides being "cute", which is why there are numerous organizations out there lobbying on their behalf. But are you trying to suggest that 2 wrongs make a right? i.e. since calves end up on veal plates, it's OK to bash in the skulls of baby seals? Let's stick to the topic. Are you uncomfortable talking about seals?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 4:09 am
 


You know I’ve answered my share of questions, now it’s my turn to pose a few. My concern is of course that it’s okay for certain individuals to attack the credibility of someone who is not present (Captain Watson) – a very easy thing to do – however when someone like Sinikka or me responds we stand to be labeled as troublemakers. Maybe this will happen, if it does my point has been proven - namely that you can’t take it - and those of you who get a kick out of this, can go back to creating a fantasy-make-believe-world where your villain drives around in a sinister, black, oil and sewage spewing vehicle eating veal while pretending he’s a ships captain.

Its too bad that after I took the questions SprCForr posed seriously and replied in a respectful manner that one of this forums moderators, Royal Highlander, would respond to me in an off the cuff, careless manner. Is this the best you can do?

So Royal Highlander how is it that you have managed to assume that anyone who cares about the environment (and in reference to the Sea Shepherd) automatically dines on veal? Have you visited any of the SSCS ships or do you know someone who has crewed on one of these ships? I am willing to bet this is not the case – in fact I can guarantee you have no proof.

Let me set the record straight on this, I was offered dinner twice on the SSCS flagship – the Farley Mowat – each time I was served a 100% vegan dinner. In fact there is a policy onboard the ship, no meat, no seafood and no illegal drugs of any kind. And just because someone makes an outrageous claim to the contrary it doesn’t mean it’s the truth – get it?

Next in regards to SprCForr’s question:

“I don't agree with his (Captain Watson’s) methods.”

What methods would you recommend be used to end the illegal, extremely cruel slaughter of whales by rogue whale-killing nations such as Japan, Norway and Iceland who exploit loopholes in the IWC’s moratorium on whaling? How about the “sit back and see if these nations decided to govern themselves within the accordance of international law” method? Unfortunately that one’s been well and truly worn out.

Consider this: Imagine if in a town there was a gang of thugs who for 10 years went around indiscriminately killing as many animals as it they could find, profiting from this lawless misery as they went along. And then imagine that during this same time period this town assembled a committee whose job it was to enforce the law and prevent these thugs from committing these crimes. And this committee meets time and after time over the course of the 10 years and does nothing to stop this gang from its violent, deadly rampage.

And then one day one individual – for the hell of it we’ll call him Pete Wilson – decides he has had enough and he sets out to find where this gang is with the plan being to put their vehicle out of action, the one they use to drive around in to do their killings - and he finds them in their vehicle and he damages it and subsequently puts this gang out of action with no harm coming to the actual gang members or himself.

Perhaps though instead of being grateful some of the town’s people might complain that Wilson made a mistake about where his truck was one day. Someone might say “Hey in his report to the town committee Wilson said his truck was in front of the 7-11 at 4 pm on the 11th of April when he was really 100 meters away in front of Starbucks”. Perhaps someone else might say, “You know I heard a rumor that his truck is black and it leaks oil.” Need I go on and provide an example for the “Captain” scenario? Or do we all get the picture.

Because this was the situation Captain Watson was up against when he went after the illegal pirate whaling ship the “Sierra” (as well as all the other illegal, pirate whaling ships stopped by the SSCS).

Also what have any of you done on an ongoing basis to help either another human being or the environment? If someone has something to offer I would genuinely like to hear it because it is the easiest thing to do to sit on the sidelines and do nothing while criticizing those who do.

I would be very grateful to those of you who have the ability to be objective, if you would open your minds to new possibilities. Please read up and learn what goes on when a whale is slaughtered or is it more fun (and easier) to just criticize that which you do not understand than it is to become knowledgeable and constructive? Without knowing the details about this you are playing the ignorant fool. It takes hours to kill a whale and it is horrifically cruel. The standard practice for the whale-killers is to drive an electric lance deep into the whale's body near the vicinity of its heart and slowly electrocute it for hours with the ships (inadequate) voltage system while the rest of this suffering whale’s family stays close by and comforts this dying, highly intelligent creature. Imagine how it would feel if someone drove a spear into your body (with no pain-killers) and slowly drained the life out of you over the course of several hours.

Whacking a 12-day-old baby seal over the head in front of its mother and skinning it (often while it is alive) is another great example of what can go wrong inside the mind of a human being including those who justify this cruel practice. Incidentally anyone doubting the "skinned alive" bit please visit: www.ivwg.org and download the 27-page government of Canada Department of Fisheries and Oceans approved PDF file (they participated in this report & it backfired on them) by the Independent Veterinary Working Group. Twenty-seven pages worth of criticism proves this slaughter is supremely inhumane!

In closing here is one of my favorite quotes aimed at anyone who cannot sympathize with another living being whose only wish is to live free and who inflicts no harm on mankind. All mortal beings fear death and pain, why then is it so easy for us humans to disregard these same terrible feelings in the case of whales, seals - every other living being on this planet?

Think about it, learn to empathize with every life form you realistically can and become a humane being.

"Evil is the Absence of Empathy."
Captain G.M. Gilbert, U.S. Army Psychologist - Nuremberg, Germany 1948


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 10:48 am
 


RoyalHighlander RoyalHighlander:
themasta themasta:
What's the big deal with the seal hunt? Ever notice how it is the cute animals that get people all riled up? Just because an animal makes a good beanie-baby, does that make it more important?

How many sit and eat a nice plate of veal while planning another fund raiser for Green Peace,, veal yopung calfs grain fed to make them tender and tasty... not cute enough for protection???


I like veal, it's tender because it's young.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:53 am
 


Actually I have to say that some of the responses I have read are about as common as salt and something I come across frequently. I like to see this sort of thing because it proves to me the mentality of certain individuals who oppose the Animal Rights/green movement.

These individuals, who have limited resources, find it necessary to vent their frustrations against individuals whose actions or position they do not understand. Using mind-numbingly simple inflammatory remarks they attempt (and fail) to goad the other party (i.e. me) who only responds because he finds them funny.

Normally they’re not very old and therefore (at present) sport a limited education and knowledge of the world other than things that relate to their present state of mind.

They often live in shabby apartments forced to do shared accommodation with other likeminded individuals or (even worse) they still live in the basement of their parents home while they go to school.

They are typically found to be voicing negative comments about this or that, complaining about their lot in life, complaining about how they have been wronged by others, stating their disapproval of what others do, while they themselves are engrossed in their own personal and therefore selfish pursuits.

All of this often boils down to insecurity, sometimes the result of physical or mental deficiencies.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 12:28 pm
 


Wilddogsam Wilddogsam:
Actually I have to say that some of the responses I have read are about as common as salt and something I come across frequently. I like to see this sort of thing because it proves to me the mentality of certain individuals who oppose the Animal Rights/green movement.

These individuals, who have limited resources, find it necessary to vent their frustrations against individuals whose actions or position they do not understand. Using mind-numbingly simple inflammatory remarks they attempt (and fail) to goad the other party (i.e. me) who only responds because he finds them funny.

Normally they’re not very old and therefore (at present) sport a limited education and knowledge of the world other than things that relate to their present state of mind.

They often live in shabby apartments forced to do shared accommodation with other likeminded individuals or (even worse) they still live in the basement of their parents home while they go to school.

They are typically found to be voicing negative comments about this or that, complaining about their lot in life, complaining about how they have been wronged by others, stating their disapproval of what others do, while they themselves are engrossed in their own personal and therefore selfish pursuits.

All of this often boils down to insecurity, sometimes the result of physical or mental deficiencies.


Ever wondered if we're only responding because we think it's funny? Granted I'm pretty young (almost 20, very young) and does that give me a limited world view? Perhaps. Do I live in a shabby apartment? Not apartment perse, more of a dorm. Personally, I'd say that the variance in beliefs is even more profound in a dorm than anywhere else in the world. Thousands of people who are totally different. Anyway, I'm not sure what you're getting at but for me, who cares about the seal hunt? As long as it is regulated so they aren't all killed off I have no problem with it. Many who protest are the stereotype of white suburban kids who have had everything handed to them in life and have no concept of having to work hard for what they have. For many seal hunters, this is their only source of income, the only way they can improve their lives and their families. If you want to take that away, go ahead, but I'm not going to try to destroy someone's livelihood.


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