[Rev_Blair]

If we were to join the EU that would give us a say in monetary policy though, Scape. I know that isn't the same as having full control and that decisions might be made that were bad for Canada overall, but it is still far better than having no say whatsoever.

The world has changed massively since 1929, figfarmer. Europe was a continent that was severely divided, empires were slowly crumbling, and things were looking bad over there. Since then a lot of anomosities have been settled and countries have begun cooperating with each other.

If the choice is between joining the US at all costs and joining the EU and maintaining at least some sovereignty, Europe is a much beter fit than the US.

[hockeyguy3399]

Maybe we only need to switch to the Euro. In just over 10 years, it is now worth more than the US dollar. And if Quebec, BC, Alberta or NF separates... they still be part of the Euro... So the new money is not affected. We already have the rest.


Why would any of these provinces seperate!? and I do agree with part of the Euro thing, I think we should be part of Europe but keep the Canadian Dollar. (Sort of how the Brits kept the pound)

[Johnnybgoodaaaaa]

Sorry, but I really don't get what the US has done to Canada that is so bad that you guys would want to become part of the European Union and try to distance yourself from our own North American alliance. I mean, if you want to join the European Union it doesn't really bother me, and go ahead and cut all your ties with the US while your at it, adopt the Euro, and give a big fuck you to the US.....of course, if you want to find somewhere else to dump 2/3s of your exports, that is also fine with me. I mean, all the close border relationship does for your country is provide an easy and less expensive way for you to dump your goods with those "war wongers" to the south.

I'm sorry, but I am still trying to understand what the US has done that is so bad to Canada? Sure we disagree, but what you people are purposing is basically dumping US dollars, and trying to hurt the US. If you decided to become a part of the European Union, and adopt their currency, that would hurt the US currency a good deal and basically fuck us over, for no good reason at all. We have no beef with Canada, you all aren't flying planes into our buildings, and you all helped us in Afghanistan. Maybe instead of purposing these unrealistic ideas, you should look at your current situation of being right next to the US and try to improve your relations with us.

Now, on another issue, and I know it is off topic....why the fuck are you people so ignorant of the normal American? You people talk like we are all fucking war mongers. You people are so judgemental and have ridiculous ideas. The US gives you a GREAT trade benefit, the protection of their military, which basically makes it so no countries would ever dare to attack the North American continent, and all you people do is side with countries like Iran and Syria, and say fuck you to the US, and purpose joining the European Union seriously.

There's tons of US policies I don't agree with, but I would never shoot myself in the foot the way you people seem to want to. Nothing good would ever come from Canada saying fuck you to the US and joing the EU. Let's hope you people are NEVER diplomats. Now, I don't support Israel, but that doesn't mean I will ever be an Iran/Syria/whatever else is a dictartorship supporter.

[Rev_Blair]

It isn't about saying, "Fuck you," to the US, Johnny. It is about maintaining Canadian sovereignty. There has been a movement in Canada, led by the likes of Stephen Harper, to adopt the US dollar or peg our currency to it.

There are a couple problems with that. A lot of countries that have pegged their currency to the US dollar have been thrown onto economic turmoil. What the Fed decides is best for the US is not always right for Canada. Adopting the USD or pegging our currency to the USD would completely negate and important economic control and leave us even more vulnerable to American protectionism.

Joining the EU and adopting the Euro would give us at least some voice in the use of economic controls. Even if we were not a member but pegged our currency to theirs, the EU is large and diverse enough that at least some its members are likely to share the same concerns as us.

Being a member would give us more access to more diverse markets as well as increased clout at the bargaining table in times where protectionism is thought to be politically expedient in the US. That could be very helpful in cases like the softwood lumber issue or the Wheatboard or BSE.

In short, it has nothing to do with anti-Americanism, it has to do with getting a fair deal.

[Johnnybgoodaaaaa]

Rev_Blair wrote:

It isn't about saying, "Fuck you," to the US, Johnny. It is about maintaining Canadian sovereignty. There has been a movement in Canada, led by the likes of Stephen Harper, to adopt the US dollar or peg our currency to it.

There are a couple problems with that. A lot of countries that have pegged their currency to the US dollar have been thrown onto economic turmoil. What the Fed decides is best for the US is not always right for Canada. Adopting the USD or pegging our currency to the USD would completely negate and important economic control and leave us even more vulnerable to American protectionism.

Joining the EU and adopting the Euro would give us at least some voice in the use of economic controls. Even if we were not a member but pegged our currency to theirs, the EU is large and diverse enough that at least some its members are likely to share the same concerns as us.

Being a member would give us more access to more diverse markets as well as increased clout at the bargaining table in times where protectionism is thought to be politically expedient in the US. That could be very helpful in cases like the softwood lumber issue or the Wheatboard or BSE.

In short, it has nothing to do with anti-Americanism, it has to do with getting a fair deal.

So let me get this....the way for Canadians to keep their sovereignty is by joining the European Union....isn't that a contradiction? Most of the countries looking for membership in the EU are eastern european nations which actually need ways to peg those markets the EU offers. What you have right now is kind of what those nations are already offered(although you make the relationship seem alot more dramatic)by the EU, except with the US. I mean, being a G8 nation, and having pretty decent trade benefits with a nation is probably more than ALOT of nations on this planet have. But you people are still not satisfied, you would go as far as joining the EU. The US has already been affected Euro Vs. Dollar problem. Now to have Canada adopt that could effect the US, which in turn could effect Canada's trade. Also, most of the naitons joining the EU are countries who don't really have tons of markets open to them in the first place. To my knowledge, the WTO usually helps out in those fields anyways.

[Rev_Blair]

The situation we are in now is really more like if a single country...say Portugal...did almost all of its trade with another single, but much larger country...say Germany...and was considering adopting its currency.

The EU is a group of nations, Johnny. The abundance of smaller nations serves to offset the undue influence of a few. It is not ideal, but it is a far better situation than being dominated by a much larger single coutry next door.

It's funny that you mentioned the WTO...the US has ignored WTO rulings on softwood lumber and wheat. If Canada was part of the EU and the US chose to ignore those same WTO rulings, we could press for countervailing duties from all across the EU. As it is we stand alone, unable to stop unfair trade barriers thrown up by our closest and largest trading partner.

[Johnnybgoodaaaaa]

The US has to tax the wood because your country puts stumpage fees are less, which effects our lumbers and our economy. We have to tax it to make the market at least somewhat even, but instead of following with that, your companies up the production so they can flood our markets, which effects our economy.

Lastest I've heard, there is a movement in the US to boycott certain Canadian goods. Why? Because Canadians think Americans are evil and don't like the US. Let's see how great your country does once we boycott certain goods. 4 out of 10 Canadian teenagers think every American is evil.

Also, the EU is a group of nations from EUROPE. Canada is a part of North America.

Something I have gotten very sick of is the double standard. Canadians bash Americans all the time, and the second any American says anything that is Anti-Canadian, mainly because Canadians started it with them, they are suddenly put in the category of being ignorant. Canadians really think they know everything about the US and about Americans, and actually feel they are in the seat to make such broad generalizations about an entire country of 300 million people. Now, not all Canadians are like this, and I greatly respect the ones who are able to look past someones culture, but most of you on this site prove my points that you are all obsessed with the US, and think you know more about the US than any American will ever know, and feel you are in the place to judge Americans the way you do. What I think this comes from is the conditioning most Canadians get in their schools. Most Canadians are taught a biased look at the US. They are taught that Canada is the nation that fights for good, while the US is the evil empire who has always done wrong things, and the US's play in certain historical moments is greatly played down. Now, don't get me wrong, they shouldn't make the US out to be the best country in the world who does no wrong, I just think they tilt towards the side that portrays the US as the empire who is pure evil and is capable of no good, while Canada is the shining star of the world.

Kind of funny, isn't it, that the US teaches their people the same sort of thing -- that the US is a shining star in the world -- yet they don't go out of their way to bash Canada.

You people just don't understand what it's like to have another country sit there and tell you that you are ignorant, that you are a war monger, and basically dislike you just because you were born in a certain country. It's like someone hating and judging black people just because they are black.

[Rev_Blair]

Except we don't usually bash Americans just for being American. That keeps getting lost in the shuffle. The vast majority of "anti-American" posts on this site are against actions the US has taken. These are criticisms that many Americans have made as well. I know they also get called anti-American for doing so, including American icons like Willie Nelson, but it just points out the weakness of the accuser's postion. Speaking out against Amerika is not the same as being anti-American.