[ridenrain]

[stemmer]

I find it ironic how naive people are who are buying into this cap & trade nonesense...

Global warming?

Carbon emissions?

It's all about politics and political agendas.... Nothing to do with science....

[N_Fiddledog]

You heard the Americans passed the Waxman-Markey bill to go to, I think it's the senate, for the final vote, right?

That little weasel Waxman slipped 300 pages into the bill at the last minute, before hardly anybody could read them.

One guy John Boehner appeared to have stayed up late the night before to look over the amendments. They're pretty scary. Here's Boehner filibustering to inform the house on what's in the amendments. Right about the 6 minute mark he slaps Waxman about his little weasel ears, figuratively speaking.

[martin14]

Jesus, glad I'm not in the USA.

It's gonna be such a mess in the next few years.

[N_Fiddledog]

Actually Martin you should be scared living here in Canada too.

Here's why.

If the American Bill passes, Canada must react, or face crippling tariffs. This is why Harper is now making noises about his own cap and trade bill, no matter whether he really wants one, or not.

The wording in the Waxman bill demands GHG control measures in trading nations must be at least 80% as degenerative to the local economy as the American bill will be.

[stemmer]

Weasels and punks indeed....!!!!!!!

[poquas]

It's coming, and regardless of your personal feeling about climate change, Canada will have to conform. The overwhelming consensus of the scientific community is that it’s real and I seriously doubt anyone is going to convince them or the various governments otherwise.

[Terence]

The taxpayers song....

now bad is good and good is bad
then i was happy now i'm sad
don't know what's real or in my head
don't know if i'm alive or if i'm dead

big bad boys that aim for the sun
raise you glass honey might as well have fun

we're going down down down down down into a mess
cause we're all fucked up more or less

now good is bad and bad is good
don't know what i would, could or should
still blood-red but feeling blue
in Obama Nation version 2

big bad boys that aim for the sun
raise you glass honey might as well have fun

we're going down down down down down into a mess
cause we're all fucked up more or less

[ridenrain]

Frightening on how the US works and how it affects all of us around them. I'd bet that the Canadian system works much the same way except all the talk never gets beyond the hill and never gets done in public.

[N_Fiddledog]

poquas wrote:

The overwhelming consensus of the scientific community is that it’s real

I, of course call bullshit. There is a scientific consensus on a long term warming trend. There does appear to be a consensus human activity can affect climate in some form, or another. There is no scientific consensus CO2 is the main driver of climate forcing an inevitable crisis of warming. There may be a political consensus on that one, but there is no consensus of rank and file scientists on it which can be shown, and much evidence such a consensus does not exist.

[poquas]

The sheer number of scientists stating there is climate change as a result of human activity far exceeds the number that says bullshit. Not my area of expertise but I’m not will to completely dismiss it.

The simple fact is that however and whatever is implemented will result in a general reduction of pollution in all forms. I don’t know what’s wrong although I’d be surprised if industry is not affecting the climate in some form. I don’t care if it’s going to get warmer or cooler in the next fifty years, I’ll be long gone by then, but I have children that don’t deserve to suffer from the actions of our industrial gains for the past hundred years.

[ridenrain]

Unless you include CO2 in the list of polution, cap & trade will have no effect on polution except to simply raise the taxes on everything.

[dino_bobba_renno]

poquas wrote:

The sheer number of scientists stating there is climate change as a result of human activity far exceeds the number that says bullshit. Not my area of expertise but I’m not will to completely dismiss it.

The simple fact is that however and whatever is implemented will result in a general reduction of pollution in all forms. I don’t know what’s wrong although I’d be surprised if industry is not affecting the climate in some form. I don’t care if it’s going to get warmer or cooler in the next fifty years, I’ll be long gone by then, but I have children that don’t deserve to suffer from the actions of our industrial gains for the past hundred years.

[N_Fiddledog]

The idea cap and trade, or carbon offset schemes, will offer some sort of side benefit of control over actual pollution is most likely - like fantasies of a scientific consensus - wishful thinking.

Did you miss this one...

Quote:

EPA’s Office of Transportation & Air Quality Director Margo Oge told a meeting of the Clean Air Act Advisory Committee’s (CAAAC) Mobile Sources Technical Review Subcommittee May 13 that, through 2009 at least, EPA will focus on addressing GHG emissions and deemphasize further criteria pollutant reductions from transportation.

http://www.environmentalnewsstand.com/i ... PA-30-19-6

The suggestion there is the neglect of actual pollution will be temporary, however actual experience with UN carbon offset programs show us something different. Not only do actual pollution problems get neglected, new ones are often created when priority is attached to the hobgoblin of CO2. Here's one example...

Quote:

The great carbon credit con: Why are we paying the Third World to poison its environment?

In the fields around this giant chemicals factory in Gujarat, the barren soil smells of paint stripper and the water from the well makes you gag. So why has it been given tens of millions of pounds of taxpayer-funded UN ‘green reward points’, which are traded hungrily on the financial markets at huge profit?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive ... ution.html

[N_Fiddledog]

Speaking of hobgoblins...

My favorite H L Menken quote...

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed — and hence clamorous to be led to safety — by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."