[Tricks]

westmanguy wrote:

And yes the fundamental that Christ lived a human life, and died on the cross, for our sins, and rose again can be taken literally, because that is the entire fundamental uniting belief amongst all Christians and the basis of the entire Christian religion.

So you can say take nothing serious but this. Isn't it supposed to be god's word? What about the flood? Should we take that serious? Moses? How is this the only story we should take literally. Who gave you the authority to specify this. And doesn't it defeat the purpose of Christianity since the Bible is supposed to be the word of God?

[Tricks]

westmanguy wrote:

I know your an atheist Brenda, so this is about faith and defying science.

I.E. Defy logic and reason and common sense. Woot.

Quote:

Their are still plenty of common sense sins...lieing, adultery, stealing, murder, kidnapping, rape, etc. etc. etc.

Did you just group lying and adultery with murder and rape?

[stokes]

WMG

The only thing worth cherishing is happiness because it is such a strange thing coming and going like the wind.

If you find something that makes you happy and doesnt cause anyone else physical or emotional pain than pursue it as much as you want because Happiness doesnt stay forever for anyone.

While your choices are not the same as mine as long as you are happy pursuing them, then my opinion shouldnt matter to you...and that goes for everyone else who shits on you for your choices!

[westmanguy]

This isn't about the Christian religion, unless you discussing the Bible relating to homosexuality...

I don't want to get into a religious debate here.

[Tricks]

westmanguy wrote:

This isn't about the Christian religion, unless you discussing the Bible relating to homosexuality...

I don't want to get into a religious debate here.

If you don't want a religious debate, don't bring it up.

[Brenda]

westmanguy wrote:

Brenda wrote:

So... How can somebody die for "sins" we are not to take literally, and to be committed in the future?

How can ANYBODY rise again? That is a story in a book not to take literally, right?

I know your an atheist Brenda, so this is about faith and defying science.

But the fundamental uniting Christian principle is:

Jesus Christ was born to the Virgin Mary, to live a human life, and spread the word of God, and to die on the Cross, for our sins, and 3 days later he rose again to go to Heaven.

How do you KNOW that? You state it here as a fact, but it is basicly a story in a book you just said not to be taken literally...

Quote:

Their are still plenty of common sense sins...lieing, adultery, stealing, murder, kidnapping, rape, etc. etc. etc.

No, no sins... Everybody lies once in a while, even if it is a little white lie, 33% cheats on his/her spouse, and the rest are crimes. Nobody dies (should die ) for crimes he/she didn't commit...

But, what really surprises me, is that sodomy is not stated in your list? Wonder why... Or does that fall under "etc.. etc..."? Or is it not a sin to you anymore?

[Brenda]

stokes wrote:

WMG

The only thing worth cherishing is happiness because it is such a strange thing coming and going like the wind.

If you find something that makes you happy and doesnt cause anyone else physical or emotional pain than pursue it as much as you want because Happiness doesnt stay forever for anyone.

While your choices are not the same as mine as long as you are happy pursuing them, then my opinion shouldnt matter to you...and that goes for everyone else who shits on you for your choices!

[westmanguy]

Brenda wrote:

westmanguy wrote:

Brenda wrote:

So... How can somebody die for "sins" we are not to take literally, and to be committed in the future?

How can ANYBODY rise again? That is a story in a book not to take literally, right?

I know your an atheist Brenda, so this is about faith and defying science.

But the fundamental uniting Christian principle is:

Jesus Christ was born to the Virgin Mary, to live a human life, and spread the word of God, and to die on the Cross, for our sins, and 3 days later he rose again to go to Heaven.

How do you KNOW that? You state it here as a fact, but it is basicly a story in a book you just said not to be taken literally...

Quote:

Their are still plenty of common sense sins...lieing, adultery, stealing, murder, kidnapping, rape, etc. etc. etc.

No, no sins... Everybody lies once in a while, even if it is a little white lie, 33% cheats on his/her spouse, and the rest are crimes. Nobody dies (should die ) for crimes he/she didn't commit...

But, what really surprises me, is that sodomy is not stated in your list? Wonder why... Or does that fall under "etc.. etc..."? Or is it not a sin to you anymore?

I honestly don't know, I am figuring this all out Brenda. Coming to terms with the fact I am gay has forced me to re-examine my religious views.

I still consider myself Christian. I believe Christ came to earth to live a perfect human life, and die on the cross for our sins, so we could be forgiven and secured a passage to Heaven.

Beyond that basic belief, I don't know. I don't know about End Times, our all the sins.

I'm a very basic non-denominational Christian. My Christianity is mostly focused around Christ..

And I don't "know" for sure about Christ, but I believe.

And the Bible to me and all the things I've read doesn't say homosexuality/sodomy/gay sex/etc. is a sin, for a couple reasons:

1) That leviticus verse that goes along the lines of "Though shalt not lie with a man as they lie with a women, for it is an abomination". Many docs and priests I have watched on this say this is taken out of context for a few reasons.

In Leviticus the word "abomination" refers to what was looked down upon in the Jewish culture of that time. Not a Christian abomination.

Leviticus also says that:

working on the sabbath
eating beef
eating shrimp
planting two different types of crop side by side

Are all quote on quote "abominations". If we give relevancy to the "abomination" of homosexuality, per the verse in Leviticus, one must be consistent and give relevancy to the other abominations. But no, the religious right warps this and only gives relevancy to the "abomination" of homosexuality

2) Soddam and Gomorrah (sp?) story

The religious right has warped this story out of context sooooo badly. This story is about hospitality. In Jewish culture of that time your always supposed to welcome strangers, this town didn't and was destroyed...so the moral of that story was hospitality, not homosexuality.

3) Jesus Christ never breathed one word of condemnation towards homosexuality/sodomy. Christ taught love and acceptance.

4) Their is a Romans verse in the New Testament that goes along the lines of "though shalt not spill the seed outside of a women".

Now this could easily refer to masturbation, but the religious right once again warps it towards homosexuality. When in fact (again) this verse if referring to what was wrong in that story's culture.

---

The Bible always needs to be read in context, the religious right doesn't, and is inconsistent and warps the words.

So from my studying on this issue, I don't believe its a sin according to the Holy Bible.

[Brenda]

Well, as long as you can combine the 2, it is fine with me. I don't have to live with it, and I am happy for you you found a way to be Christian and gay. (wait till Hwack reads this though )

[westmanguy]

Brenda wrote:

Well, as long as you can combine the 2, it is fine with me. I don't have to live with it, and I am happy for you you found a way to be Christian and gay. (wait till Hwack reads this though )

Yeah, their are lots and lots of Gay Christians.

United Church of Canada, Anglican (to some extent), etc.

Its really inspiring to see, the churches are slowly (but surely) coming around on this issue.

I'm a Gay Christian Conservative What a combination

[Brenda]

Don't become Catholic though... I don't think the pope would approve Hell, (pun intended), he is against condoms, for crying out loud...

[RUEZ]

westmanguy wrote:

Brenda wrote:

Well, as long as you can combine the 2, it is fine with me. I don't have to live with it, and I am happy for you you found a way to be Christian and gay. (wait till Hwack reads this though )

Yeah, their are lots and lots of Gay Christians.

United Church of Canada, Anglican (to some extent), etc.

Its really inspiring to see, the churches are slowly (but surely) coming around on this issue.

I'm a Gay Christian Conservative What a combination

Good for you man, do what makes you happy and ignore anybody that tells you different. At the end of the day they don't live your life you do.

[novachick]

RUEZ wrote:

westmanguy wrote:

Brenda wrote:

Well, as long as you can combine the 2, it is fine with me. I don't have to live with it, and I am happy for you you found a way to be Christian and gay. (wait till Hwack reads this though )

Yeah, their are lots and lots of Gay Christians.

United Church of Canada, Anglican (to some extent), etc.

Its really inspiring to see, the churches are slowly (but surely) coming around on this issue.

I'm a Gay Christian Conservative What a combination

Good for you man, do what makes you happy and ignore anybody that tells you different. At the end of the day they don't live your life you do.

[novachick]

Brenda wrote:

Don't become Catholic though... I don't think the pope would approve Hell, (pun intended), he is against condoms, for crying out loud...

I agree Brenda. I don't think it's humanly possible to say that many hail marys before falling asleep.

[TattoodGirl]

RUEZ wrote:

westmanguy wrote:

Brenda wrote:

Well, as long as you can combine the 2, it is fine with me. I don't have to live with it, and I am happy for you you found a way to be Christian and gay. (wait till Hwack reads this though )

Yeah, their are lots and lots of Gay Christians.

United Church of Canada, Anglican (to some extent), etc.

Its really inspiring to see, the churches are slowly (but surely) coming around on this issue.

I'm a Gay Christian Conservative What a combination

Good for you man, do what makes you happy and ignore anybody that tells you different. At the end of the day they don't live your life you do.