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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:17 pm
 


It's a reaction to the way capitalism has completely failed anyone who isn't rich over the last forty years. It's despair and desperation, reaching out to something the complete opposite of what we have today, because too many have nothing left to lose anymore.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:20 pm
 


and it's looked upon differently than Dixie or Hakenkreuz why?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:27 pm
 


Don't know. Romanticism, I suppose of a sort similar to the Lost Cause of the Confederacy. In reality though communism did provide, as Nazism and fascism did as well, a minimum standard of living, education, health, and employment for anyone who didn't fall into the category of an enemy of the state. If someone actually helps someone it shouldn't be a shock that the one who's been helped will tend to overlook the warts and flaws of their benefactors. It explains why those millions of war veterans and seniors in Russia were so terrified when state Communism ended, because they knew (quite accurately) that they were going to be thrown to the wolves as pseudo-democracy and gangster capitalism took over their country.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:38 pm
 


similar to the carpetbaggers in the South or the communists that took over East Germany... again, in the hyper-sensitive modern day; how is the open display of our once/still mortal foe alright with the masses?

one of my favourite images of post-war Berlin...

Image


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:05 pm
 


I'd say the carpetbaggers had more in common with today's modern Wall Street locusts/parasites than they ever did with any socialists. Just more bottom feeders taking advantage of the destruction inflicted on others to make themselves rich. As for that photo I'd keep in mind that when it was taken, western capitalism still had some brakes put on it's worst excesses by our governments. Most of those brakes were removed long ago by Reagan and Thatcher. Communism might have been defeated in the same time period but capitalism also hollowed out the western economies by outsourcing, downsizing, and free trade. The only great moments for capitalism in the last forty years came for those in tech and finances. Everyone else pretty much got screwed.

I do have to ask one question though. Those who formed a large voting bloc for Trump are those in the middle and working classes who allegedly have been screwed badly by the anarcho-capitalism of the last four decades. So why are those (like the Bernie followers) who support more socialism as a remedy to capitalism seen as some kind of traitors or lunatics while those who supported Trump, who is in favour of unleashing even more of the destructive unregulated runaway capitalism that ruined the American middle class, are seen as being the correct ones? Just one of the many things in this increasingly toxic mix of bad ideology and horrible media that will never get a proper answer.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:16 pm
 


likely a Utopia vs Traditional dynamic... Borderless societies and universal harmony are pipe dreams with never-fulfilled promises as opposed to a nation-state approach with borders, definitions and honest struggle. One may have to scramble to put food on the table, but it's what's been done since foundation. The rest are feverish rants from ideologies actively bled fighting against and never produced where they were in power.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:31 pm
 


Not really. What we have is built on as many lies as the societies of our old enemies were. The biggest one is that if you work hard and play by the rules you'll do alright. No, you won't, because all that's going to happen to you is that someone who doesn't play by the rules is going to come around one day, rob you blind, and then you find out the government and laws that were supposed to protect you have been subverted by those who have a fuck lot more money than you'll ever have.

And this doesn't happen by accident either, and isn't a rare oddity. Humiliating and stealing everything they can from the "cattle" is what the entire system is based on.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:41 pm
 


so there's the chance of doing right when you go by the concept of merit and the certainty of getting nowhere under the totalitarian system. easy math


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:51 pm
 


"Getting somewhere" is a red herring. All socialism does is provide a minimum level of comfort and safety so that someone doesn't fall down into an economic abyss they'll never ever be able to climb out of. The capitalist view of socialism is a crock. It isn't there to make everyone rich, it's there to give everyone a chance and an opportunity to have a life where the rug doesn't get pulled out from underneath their feet all the time.

I can't speak to PD's reason for the commie iconography. From what I've seen of him here it seems to come from a deep anger at having his family knocked down all the time and not being allowed to get back up. He needs to believe in something that doesn't look at him and his family as dogs to be booted around when someone a hell of a lot more fortunate than they are feels like hurting someone. His experience is his own, and mine is mine. All I can say, after my own adventures over the last three years, is that maybe others need to lose everything themselves before they can really understand where these sentiments are coming from. Starting all over again at age fifty, when all the good years and practically all the hope are gone, isn't a hell of a lot of fun.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:02 pm
 


so falling to nothing and grabbing onto a proven abusive system is ok if it's under a hammer and sickle? would you or anyone be so open if he has flying a jihadi or national socialist flag? Communism, especially the national version he espouses, is as poisonous.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:26 pm
 


I don't endorse anything, I merely understand. Took me a lifetime to figure out how much I'd allowed myself to be lied to. I'm as disposable to this society as much as anyone who disappeared under communism was. Just because I didn't end up in a hole somewhere with a secret police bullet lodged in my brainpan doesn't mean I wasn't completely expendable to democratic capitalism's "needs". The rest of you are too, even if it hasn't happened to you (yet).

I'll ask you again to understand why someone goes with something that gives them their pride back. In the end it's all that it comes down to, especially after your pride and self-worth is stolen from you just as easily and permanently as the money and the material pleasures were. What a person joins is kind of irrelevant to the reason why they've joined in the first place.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:35 pm
 


agreeing that those with what they feel is nothing can grasp onto straws and symbols. but the hammer and sickle need to be pilloried as much as any other.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:44 pm
 


Thanos Thanos:
I don't endorse anything, I merely understand.


So you simply submit.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:52 pm
 


FieryVulpine FieryVulpine:
Thanos Thanos:
I don't endorse anything, I merely understand.


So you simply submit.


Meh. It's all situational, not something that can be looked down on righteously with history-after-the-fact on your side. If you're trapped in late 1920's Germany and a certain party of brownshirts comes along, gives you a job, changes the law so you can't get evicted from your home, stops the banks from ripping you off, and feeds your family are you really going to care all that much about their background agenda when they're the only ones who've ever helped you?

Authoritarianism that provides the basics as well as some opportunities is popular among most of it's subjects for a reason. If democratic capitalism wants to avoid these things from re-occurring twice a century then it should behave better and quit leaving nothing but the bones behind after it's stripped all the flesh from individuals, communities, and entire indutries. Political parties and systems that are owned by bankers are just as bad and destructive as any other "ism" out there.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:27 pm
 


Brown versus Red riots are nothing new. It's new that we think of them as right versus left now. As they originated it was two sides of the same socialist left-wing fighting over who gets to lead the revolution. It's only different today in that the left controls the the mainstreaming of the information now and it gets to rewrite reality before it's passed down to the rest of us.

Some refuse to settle for that middle step though and ask themselves what really happened.



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