[Genessee]

Ok, Hi again. My last visits here over the past couple of years have been painful to say the least...I have opinions and love to debate and discuss but the reg's seem to resent that. With that said, I have a plea today. I am a second year mortuary student and will graduate from CCFS in April 2010 with a dual liscense in Funeral Directing and Embalming.

Last year we studied World Religions. This year, we are doing no such thing. I found it all facinating; having come to deeply respect if not abhor the beliefs of some cultures. However I was very dissapointed that only a brief portion of the last assignment of the year was in regards to Atheism and Humanism. I won't say I subscribe to those beliefs, or lack thereof, as with any of the others I studied through the year or the years prior. I happened to grade well on a particular essay question in my first assignment of World Religions last fall, and yet happened to equally produce some contoversy when asked on paper, what 'religion' meant to me and I responded that "I believe that religion is a man-made institution designed to guilt people into submission through oppression."

I have come here today in hopes for some hands-on, real-people opinion and circumsatnce on how Bereavement (the objectional fact of loss), Grief (the emotional response to that loss) and Mourning (the physical expression of that loss) manifest themself when religious rites and rituals are not a part of the equation.

This is a 20 page research paper that I will write and present with a 20 minute oral presentation in April as my final exam for Communications. For this Communications class, my entire last 2 semesters [3 & 4] ( semesters 1 & 2 were last year) will focus on developing this topic along with the further work I have to focus on in 7 other subjects.

I am an open book; completely willing to answer any and all questions through time that may arrise from other members here in order to affirm my sincerity. My paper has the opportunity to be published next summer in the Canadian Funeral Directors Magazine, however, all I really want (because quite frankly, I'm not an English major and publication is not on my list of assertions)is insite to a question I had long before I became a student in the funeral profession (we were advised to come up with a topic on something we were passionate about!).

Thank you for your time!

[sandorski]

Pretty much the same way a Religious person Feels/Thinks. Just without the Trappings of Religion. Religious Rituals hardly matter to even the Religious, Time, Family, and Friends are where they receive Comfort and Acceptance of their Loss. It is no different for the non-Religious.

[Nuggets]

Ditto to what Sandorski said. Also, sometimes religious people get angry and blame their god for the death of a loved one and they lose their faith in their god. Non-religious people don't have a god to blame so they might express their anger in other ways. I think the way people perceive death is different for each individual and each individual reacts differently about each death.

[Genessee]

Nugget, that is some of what i want to know, what would be those "other" ways? I'm very non-relgious despite being spiritual but in my studies and working with the families I have worked with, I've been very surprised by how much comfort people find in their religion when they are going through the worste time in their life. And the bereavment, grief and mourning period isn't just a few days, it goes on and on. How do people reconcile their peace eventually?

[raydan]

Understand that if you loved passionately, you will grieve passionately.

Cry, scream, rant and rave - whatever it takes to help get you through. This is not the time for self-control.

Do not put any unrealistic deadlines on your mourning period.

True, sometimes people find comfort in their religion, but I feel that sometimes, religion will have the opposite effect on some people.

[Strutz]

I think everyone finds their peace eventually but it depends on so many things. How close was the deceased person to them? What was the cause of the death? Was it a sudden passing or a lingering illness that eventually won? Is there another person to blame? The age of the person mourning is a factor, have they dealt with many deaths? In the case of a death in a family, do they mourn together or separately? Everyone heals at their own pace. I don't think there could be a guideline to determine how and when someone gets over the loss of someone they love or care about.

I can see religion playing a huge role for those who have strong faith. For them, believing that God took this person to be closer to Him, gives them a sense of comfort that the one they lost is not alone. I can understand how this would be of great comfort and perhaps it helps them to heal. Personally I am not religious but do have faith. I do believe that everything happens for a reason even if it seems unfair or unjust at the time.

Acceptance of something you cannot change can be difficult for anyone, religious or not. The reminder that eventually you too, will die, hits you. The fact that it could happen to anyone, at anytime is a reality, especially when you get blind-sided by a phonecall thats brings you news from left-field...

As difficult as they can be I have found attending funerals/memorial services to be an important way to face the reality of it and mourn and share with others. There is great comfort to be found when realizing that you are not alone with your loss. Hearing stories and information about that person you may not have known about previously helps you to see the person in a different light than your own and you realize how they touched the lives of others and made their mark on the world. To me, that justifies that their purpose was fullfilled and that they made their contribution and then it was time to move on...

[Genessee]

I appreciate each of you taking the time to respond to this. This has been a very difficult topic for me to focus on and very shortly after posting originally, mostly due to the first 2 replies I recieved and then reading some of plato, aristotle and socrates (funny how things work out in a short period of time) not to mention that my main focus in personal education (at home-spare time reading) is philosophy, world religions and the sciences that accompany them.
I've had 3 weeks to narrow my thesis down and finally handed my statement in last night. The rest of the year is developing and writing it. Thought I'd share what I handed in. My topic was approved. Following is the assignment posed by the instructor and then my response

****Identify your research question. Student Response: How does what you believe in (religion (specifically Christianity and the ancient eastern religions of Hinduism and Buddhism vs. Secular Humanism and Atheism)) affect your grief process? Does your belief system even matter in the universal human emotion of grief?


****Identify and clearly explain your research topic. Use the “5 W’s of Inquiry”as explained by Badke as a guideline to present a Working Knowledge of your topic. Why did you select this topic?

Student Response: It seems that even those people who are anti-religion still hold strongly to various philosophies that guide the way they live their life and I would like to compare the two systems in regards to bereavement, grief and mourning.

An effective funeral director should have an understanding of this psychology so that they keep an open mind and do not judge those they are helping because of their own or the survivor's particular belief system.

Our place in these peoples lives is related to their loss, their grief emotions and to help them mourn in meaningful ways. Our place in this profession is not to compromise the ethical Principle of Justice and Equity because of our personal judgments of the the race, religion, culture and beliefs (religious, political, moral etc) of other people. Our personal stereo types can only be overcome by educating ourselves about that which we do not understand or support.

Someone else does not have to be wrong in order for us as professionals to be effective to them.

----------------------------------

I wanted to share this with you'se here at cka because I want real guidance from real people. I have begun to compose my bibliography and have started to read my first of my current 5 sources (books) of a minimum of 12 to be used through the process with the book "The Little Book of Atheist Spirituality" by Andre Compte-Sponville. Very intriguing to say the least!

I welcome any recomendations and all insights! I'm not on cka every day, but I enjoy coming here. I visit far more than I participate and I appreciate the personalities of all whom I've had the pleasure of reading over the past 3 years!

Thanks all!

[Tricks]

I really wanted to quote star wars... but this seems serious so I won't.

[Lemmy]

Tricks wrote:

I really wanted to quote star wars... but this seems serious so I won't.

If you're suggesting that Star Wars isn't a serious topic, I'd be happy to give you a tight eye. Btw, that was my 1867th post....HAPPY BIRTHDAY CANADA !!!

[Tricks]

Lemmy wrote:

Tricks wrote:

I really wanted to quote star wars... but this seems serious so I won't.

If you're suggesting that Star Wars isn't a serious topic, I'd be happy to give you a tight eye.

Not at all, there is little more serious to me than Star Wars. However I assume that the maker of this topic is wanting to be serious, even though what I was going to quote follows in my own belief.

Yoda wrote:

Death is a natural part of life. Rejoice for those around you who transform into the Force. Mourn them do not. Miss them do not. Attachment leads to jealously. The shadow of greed, that is.

[xerxes]

It's my opinion that the rituals we have made for the dead are purely for our own benefit because the fact is that for all the things the religious belive and the non-religious believe, no one knows what's on the other side.

That's why humans created the ideas of heaven and hell because we need the comfort of knwoing that there's something after all of this. A hell for the people who never really get what they deserved in this life and a heaven for the people wo didn't get what they deserved in this life as well. The same goes for all the various funeral rituals there are; they're a way for people to comfort themselves in a time of immense grief.

I'm not religious and I absolutely HATE going to funerals. Not just because I'm still young and have a lot of living left to do but, because that not knowing challenges my non-religiousness each time. At those times, I begin to accept Pascal's thesis tht you should believe in God, just to cover your bases. But it passes.

[Yogi]

Since it's clearly not a 'religious' discussion,I'm going to weigh-in on this one. Hopefully I can stay on track and give you some usefull insight.
I don't think that a persons religious/spiritual beleifs, or lack thereof, have much bearing on how they handle the loss of a loved one or even an acquaintance. The more 'space in our circle of life' that we allot to another, the more painful the loss, the longer and more intense the grieving. Having said that, I'll add that if 'our loved one' was in good health,youngish,enjoying life, Such as a child, or sibling or best friend of like age,and death was without warning, then it follows that the grief felt by 'their loved ones' would be of the most intense kind. However, if our loved one was quite elderly, or in very poor health, or was suffering from a debilitating disease or injury, we, as well as they usually would experience a sense of relief at their passing 'Thankfully, their suffering is over now'...etc. Consequently, their death being somewhat expected would lessen the intensity of grief, consequently the amount of time spent grieving.

[OldChum]

Death is only the begining of the next journey, And you are all accepted enjoy do not worry about it .